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Thread: Obama to Unveil an Ambitious Budget Plan

  1. #11
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    Re: Obama to Unveil an Ambitious Budget Plan

    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/22/us...dget.html?_r=1

    On energy policy, Mr. Obama’s budget will show new revenues by 2012 from his proposal to require companies to buy permits from the government for greenhouse gas emissions above a certain cap. The Congressional Budget Office estimates that the permits would raise up to $300 billion a year by 2020.

    Since companies would pass their costs on to customers, Mr. Obama would have the government use most of the revenues for relief to families to offset higher utility bills and related expenses. The remaining revenues would cover his proposals for $15 billion a year in spending and tax incentives to develop alternative energy.
    Why collect $300 billion a year if you know that consumers will end up paying it and you plan to give most of it back? Oh, so he and Congress can decide who gets it back. That's it. Play favorites with other people's money.

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    Re: Obama to Unveil an Ambitious Budget Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by AndrewC View Post
    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/22/us...dget.html?_r=1



    Why collect $300 billion a year if you know that consumers will end up paying it and you plan to give most of it back? Oh, so he and Congress can decide who gets it back. That's it. Play favorites with other people's money.
    It's really just rotating money through government, which necessarily involves inefficiencies. Fantastic.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

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    Re: Obama to Unveil an Ambitious Budget Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmer View Post
    I guess you did not like the foundation Reagan created from the mess we inherited from Carter? Or the tax cuts that kept the recession shallow. A recession that made things a bit shaky after 911.

    The situation Reagan inherited is similar to the one we have today (it's nothing close to The Depression), the catalyst again is the intrusion of government into the market. Into our lives and business environment.

    This time the catalyst comes via the Democrats pet slush fund and social engineering scheme... forcing banks to make bad loans.

    Reagan's actions provided the foundation for 25-years of growth.
    Americans did the rest.

    Now, there is a fork in the road, the path to prosperity and a faster recovery (Reagan/Smith/Freidman/von Mises/Hayek/Founding Fathers Path) or the path to stagnation, inflation, nationalization and delayed recovery (ObaMarx/Carter).
    It seems strange that you would bring Reagan into the conversation, seeing as his chief economic adviser a graduate of Harvard/Oxford and a staunch, Reaganite conservative, “Martin Feldstein” seems to think that the stimulus of government spending is better than tax cuts.

    Indeed, according to a recent quotes that I have read he contends that for ever buck we spend on stimulus, we get a buck and a half in return, as apposed to the seventy five cents for a tax cut.
    The haggardness of poverty is everywhere seen contrasted with the sleekness of wealth, the exhorted labor of some compensating for the idleness of others, wretched hovels by the side of stately colonnades, the rags of indigence blended with the ensigns of opulence; in a word, the most useless profusion in the midst of the most urgent wants.Jean-Baptiste Say

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    Re: Obama to Unveil an Ambitious Budget Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    If equal reductions in spending had occurred then the positive would be blindingly obvious.

    Everyone who payed taxes saw a reduction in their tax rates because of those tax cuts.

    For lower income people that frees up more money for lifestyle spending or necessities.
    How can you consider that bad?
    So then you can not show where I can see these tax cuts at work today?
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    Re: Obama to Unveil an Ambitious Budget Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    So then you can not show where I can see these tax cuts at work today?
    They are working, existing and functioning today.

    The "invisible hand" works whether or not you agree. If the tax rates were higher it is possible that the recession could be worse.

    Tax cuts are not a magic pill but in the over all scheme of things they do help push the economy up.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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    Re: Obama to Unveil an Ambitious Budget Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    They are working, existing and functioning today.
    Show me where and how then.

    The "invisible hand" works whether or not you agree. If the tax rates were higher it is possible that the recession could be worse.
    Maybe. Ifs. Somehows. Invisible hand.

    Tax cuts are not a magic pill but in the over all scheme of things they do help push the economy up.
    So then you should have no trouble showing me the effects of the Bush tax cuts and how they've helped in the grand scheme of things.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Obama to Unveil an Ambitious Budget Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Show me where and how then.
    Give me some time to get the results.

    But I'll suggest that the investment in stocks now,even though it is low would be lower because of the previous increased capital gains tax and payroll taxes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Maybe. Ifs. Somehows. Invisible hand.
    I can't predict the future, I can only speculate based on previous tax policies in earlier years.

    In my opinion the "invisible hand" is a fact.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    So then you should have no trouble showing me the effects of the Bush tax cuts and how they've helped in the grand scheme of things.
    If the government is withholding more money from investments and payroll then people will have less money to spend of wants and needs, that is a direct and obvious effect.

    It should be obvious that it has a direct effect on today.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

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    Re: Obama to Unveil an Ambitious Budget Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Show me where and how then.
    http://www.itdoesntworklikethat.com/andyouknowthat.htm
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

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    Re: Obama to Unveil an Ambitious Budget Plan

    So then nobody can show me the effects of the tax cuts? I guess tax cuts are one notch bellow creationism. At least they try to find some sort of evidence for their claims.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Obama to Unveil an Ambitious Budget Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    So then nobody can show me the effects of the tax cuts? I guess tax cuts are one notch bellow creationism. At least they try to find some sort of evidence for their claims.
    Ten Myths About the Bush Tax Cuts

    But you won't accept that, so why bother?
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

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