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Thread: Iran passes redline, has enough U235 for Bomb

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    Re: Iran passes redline, has enough U235 for Bomb

    Quote Originally Posted by Arch Enemy View Post
    I never said that *I* believed America will nuke (infact, I have made it apparent that *I* believe that nobody is going to nuke anybody). I just say that base on straight up historical statistics on atomic weaponry, America is the only one with a history of using it.

    FFS.
    So which is it?

    1) Irrelevant to the debate.

    2) A red herring.

    3) Begging the question.
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    Re: Iran passes redline, has enough U235 for Bomb

    Quote Originally Posted by scourge99 View Post
    So which is it?

    1) Irrelevant to the debate.

    2) A red herring.

    3) Begging the question.
    It's an observation backed up by an idea I have promoted over and over again on these forums.. that nobody is crazy enough to use a nuclear weapon.

    Prove me wrong. Please.
    "I do not underestimate the ability of fanatical groups of terrorists to kill and destroy, but they do not threaten the life of the nation. Whether we would survive Hitler hung in the balance, but there is no doubt that we shall survive al-Qa'ida." -- Lord Hoffmann

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    Re: Iran passes redline, has enough U235 for Bomb

    Quote Originally Posted by Arch Enemy View Post
    I nobody is crazy enough to use a nuclear weapon.
    Are you claiming that you did not say that the US will be the most likely to use a nuke in the future than Iran based on the fact the US used them in WW2?

    Prove me wrong. Please.
    Prove what wrong, exactly? It appears you just changed your claims.
    Last edited by scourge99; 02-23-09 at 08:41 PM.
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    Re: Iran passes redline, has enough U235 for Bomb

    Quote Originally Posted by scourge99 View Post
    Are you claiming that you did not say that the US will be the most likely to use a nuke in the future than Iran based on the fact the US used them in WW2?
    I think that's the only time a nuclear weapon, or predecessor to a nuclear weapon (as to even compare the damage caused by those dropped on Japan, and those in our arsenal now is quite silly), will ever be used. Everyone knew it was going to be horrible, but nobody knew to what extent--exactly.

    Prove what wrong, exactly? It appears you just changed your claims.
    Prove me wrong! That a nation-state will use a nuclear weapon.
    "I do not underestimate the ability of fanatical groups of terrorists to kill and destroy, but they do not threaten the life of the nation. Whether we would survive Hitler hung in the balance, but there is no doubt that we shall survive al-Qa'ida." -- Lord Hoffmann

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    Re: Iran passes redline, has enough U235 for Bomb

    Quote Originally Posted by Arch Enemy View Post
    I think that's the only time a nuclear weapon, or predecessor to a nuclear weapon (as to even compare the damage caused by those dropped on Japan, and those in our arsenal now is quite silly), will ever be used. Everyone knew it was going to be horrible, but nobody knew to what extent--exactly.


    This has nothing to do with your previous claim that the US is more likely to use a nuke based solely on the fact that the US used nukes to end WW2.

    If you mispoke or misworded that's fine. But your above post is a non-sequitor in regards to my post..


    Prove me wrong! That a nation-state will use a nuclear weapon.
    You can't prove your claim is true. That's why your claim is silly and useless.

    But here goes:
    1) You cannot predict the future.
    2) Thus you cannot prove that a nation-state will not use a nuclear weapon.
    3) Therefore, your statement is not true.

    That was simple.
    Last edited by scourge99; 02-23-09 at 08:57 PM.
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    Re: Iran passes redline, has enough U235 for Bomb

    Quote Originally Posted by scourge99 View Post


    This has nothing to do with your previous claim that the US is more likely to use a nuke based solely on the fact that the US used nukes to end WW2.

    If you mispoke or misworded that's fine. But your above post is a non-sequitor in regards to my post..
    Oh come on. Read my posts.
    I said that I, personally, do not think America will use a nuke (nor will any nation-state; extremist organizations are slightly different, but one should be more worried about small-pox and other biological attacks). But, I do think that, based on history, that America is the only one with the record of using atomic weaponry. Never said "I think America will be the first to Nuke". I said "based on history,I think that America has the best credentials to Nuke (given her record)".
    You can't prove your claim is true. That's why your claim is silly and useless.

    But here goes:
    1) You cannot predict the future.
    2) Thus you cannot prove that a nation-state will not use a nuclear weapon.
    3) Therefore, your statement is not true.

    That was simple.
    I don't think I can predict the future. I am just simply stating that the statement "If Iran gets a nuclear arsenal, then Israel is screwed" (which is a summation of all the fears) is trying to predict the future. I know I know, there's the whole "Islamo-Fascist" Iranian government spelling disaster for Israel. My beliefs are that it's just rhetoric; political bull****; that Iran is trying to flex.
    The Iranians don't support the elimination of Israel. Hell, to most muslims it is religion first, then it is politics. The Ayatollah seems to have more influence on the people then that wack-job in the "Presidency".

    Just trying to state that people are irrationally fearful
    "I do not underestimate the ability of fanatical groups of terrorists to kill and destroy, but they do not threaten the life of the nation. Whether we would survive Hitler hung in the balance, but there is no doubt that we shall survive al-Qa'ida." -- Lord Hoffmann

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    Re: Iran passes redline, has enough U235 for Bomb

    Quote Originally Posted by Arch Enemy View Post
    Oh come on. Read my posts.
    I said that I, personally, do not think America will use a nuke (nor will any nation-state; extremist organizations are slightly different, but one should be more worried about small-pox and other biological attacks).
    the following is what I had an issue with:

    But, I do think that, based on history, that America is the only one with the record of using atomic weaponry
    ...
    I said "based on history,I think that America has the best credentials to Nuke (given her record)".
    I would argue that the US has shown unwavering restraint regarding nuclear weapons given the many circumstances where use was applicable.

    I don't think I can predict the future. I am just simply stating that the statement "If Iran gets a nuclear arsenal, then Israel is screwed" (which is a summation of all the fears) is trying to predict the future.
    the Iranian regime is nearly as unpredictable and irrational as crazy Kim in N Korea. Make no mistake.

    I know I know, there's the whole "Islamo-Fascist" Iranian government spelling disaster for Israel. My beliefs are that it's just rhetoric; political bull****; that Iran is trying to flex.
    it sure walks like a duck.... (Continued later)

    The Iranians don't support the elimination of Israel.
    Then why the rhetoric? What is their goal? The answer to that question is far more concerning.

    Hell, to most muslims it is religion first, then it is politics. The Ayatollah seems to have more influence on the people then that wack-job in the "Presidency".
    uh yea. That's not an accident. Its designed that way. And adhinamijaday isn't a wackjob. He knows exactly what he's doing. And he's damn good at it. The regime has practiced hard to develop strong propaganda skills and its having an effect.

    Just trying to state that people are irrationally fearful
    ...it also quacks like a duck.
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    Re: Iran passes redline, has enough U235 for Bomb

    Quote Originally Posted by scourge99 View Post
    the following is what I had an issue with:

    I would argue that the US has shown unwavering restraint regarding nuclear weapons given the many circumstances where use was applicable.
    Applicable? Any situation is applicable you've got to be more specific.
    the Iranian regime is nearly as unpredictable and irrational as crazy Kim in N Korea. Make no mistake.
    Where does the nuclear soviet union fit onto your chart of irrationality?

    Then why the rhetoric? What is their goal? The answer to that question is far more concerning.
    They are opposing the west and her influence. It is what is hot in the Middle East/ former Persian territory. Helped Al Quedia's requirement.

    uh yea. That's not an accident. Its designed that way. And adhinamijaday isn't a wackjob. He knows exactly what he's doing. And he's damn good at it. The regime has practiced hard to develop strong propaganda skills and its having an effect.

    ...it also quacks like a duck.
    So Iranian President is sane, and Kim is insane.. oh okay.
    "I do not underestimate the ability of fanatical groups of terrorists to kill and destroy, but they do not threaten the life of the nation. Whether we would survive Hitler hung in the balance, but there is no doubt that we shall survive al-Qa'ida." -- Lord Hoffmann

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    Re: Iran passes redline, has enough U235 for Bomb

    Quote Originally Posted by Arch Enemy View Post
    Where does the nuclear soviet union fit onto your chart of irrationality?
    There are consequences for every action. I doubt whether we could come to a conclusion about "what-if" we used nukes. Suffice it to say we have not used nukes since WW2 and the opportunities in conflicts from Korea to Cuba have presented themselves, nonetheless.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arch Enemy View Post
    They are opposing the west and her influence. It is what is hot in the Middle East/ former Persian territory.
    That is the end game? Just leave us alone? If we just stopped "influencing" the ME everything would be fine? Hmmm... i don't think so.

    This is not even getting into the whole world economy problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arch Enemy View Post
    So Iranian President is sane, and Kim is insane.. oh okay.
    E.G. launching long range missiles while openly developing nuclear weapons and being hyperagressive toward S Korea. The obsession of the Kim regime to reunite the peninsula at great expense of life, liberty, and money could be diagnosed as "crazy", yes.
    If you believe in the Supernatural then you can become a millionaire!

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    Re: Iran passes redline, has enough U235 for Bomb

    Quote Originally Posted by scourge99 View Post
    There are consequences for every action. I doubt whether we could come to a conclusion about "what-if" we used nukes. Suffice it to say we have not used nukes since WW2 and the opportunities in conflicts from Korea to Cuba have presented themselves, nonetheless.
    They was one way to pussy foot around the answer to my question.

    That is the end game? Just leave us alone? If we just stopped "influencing" the ME everything would be fine? Hmmm... i don't think so.

    This is not even getting into the whole world economy problem.
    You are drawing connections that are not there.
    I never said anything about us "stopping the influence" in the ME countries. Infact, I don't think that is a possible option... It is what it is and what it is is that we are a large influence on M.E. and the World in general.

    E.G. launching long range missiles while openly developing nuclear weapons and being hyperagressive toward S Korea. The obsession of the Kim regime to reunite the peninsula at great expense of life, liberty, and money could be diagnosed as "crazy", yes.
    All countries test their weaponry.
    "I do not underestimate the ability of fanatical groups of terrorists to kill and destroy, but they do not threaten the life of the nation. Whether we would survive Hitler hung in the balance, but there is no doubt that we shall survive al-Qa'ida." -- Lord Hoffmann

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