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Thread: Iran passes redline, has enough U235 for Bomb

  1. #141
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    Re: Iran passes redline, has enough U235 for Bomb

    This premise assumes that Russia would have had an interest in ending the war at Japan's earliest convenience. Why would the Kremlin oblige when there were pearls to pluck? Did you know that Russia to this day occupies a string of Japanese islands captured in the waning days of WWII? Although Japan has demanded their return numerous times since, Russia still considers these captured islands as the spoils of war.
    Moreover, my concern is not regarding what the Japanese leadership should or should not have done, but that surrender was a viable option to be explored by the Allied powers, and that the allies were fully aware of this.

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    Re: Iran passes redline, has enough U235 for Bomb

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    This entire argument was about whether surrender was viable as an alternative to either the dropping of the atomic bombs or a costly invasion. I have shown this to be so, and now your only recourse is to respond by basically saying "so what?"
    let's make this simple so you can understand.

    US: Surrender based on these terms or face the consequences.
    Japan: We agree to all terms except this one.
    US: Unacceptable. Surrender based on these terms or face the consequences.
    Japan: No.
    US: *kaboom* a-bomb #1 dropped.
    US: Surrender based on these terms or face the consequences.
    Japan: No.
    US; *kaboom* a-bomb #2 dropped.
    US: Surrender based on these terms or face the consequences.
    Japan: ok.
    <Fin>

    Your post is essentially a concession that surrender was a viable option to be explored that the US opted not to, choosing instead to kill hundreds of thousands of civilians in one of the most horrific events in recent history.
    The US was very clear to the point that the terms put forward must be accepted if the Japanese wished to surrender. It is not the US's fault that Japan would not agree to the terms and prolonged the war. The terms were equitable and fair. The Japenese leadership willfully chose to reject the terms and they choose poorly.

    You are now defending such a horrific action, to which I don't even need to respond, as what I stated to Scarecrow earlier applies to you as well:

    The fact is that you consider it acceptable to kill civilians in such an instance, to which I don't even need to respond. Your statement says pretty much everything about you that needs to be said.
    In total war scenarios scorched earth policies are acceptable. Calling me evil or any other ad-homs are irrelvant to the truth of this. Yes, its sad that civilians die in war as oppossed to the ones in the military who are the only ones deserving of death. But as long as conflicts are waged on such gradiose scales as WW1, WW2, and even the American Civil War then such a military tactic will be used.
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  3. #143
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    Re: Iran passes redline, has enough U235 for Bomb

    Since you are repeating yourself, I might as well repeat my original response to the statement that you are repeating:

    You are now defending such a horrific action, to which I don't even need to respond, as what I stated to Scarecrow earlier applies to you as well:

    The fact is that you consider it acceptable to kill civilians in such an instance, to which I don't even need to respond. Your statement says pretty much everything about you that needs to be said.


    Calling me evil or any other ad-homs are irrelvant to the truth of this.
    I never called you evil or applied any ad-hominems. I said that you are justifying the mass killing of hundreds of thousands of civilians (which you are) and that there is no need for me to say anything more, as it is pointless for me to argue with someone that condones such an action.

  4. #144
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    Re: Iran passes redline, has enough U235 for Bomb

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    I said that you are justifying the mass killing of hundreds of thousands of civilians (which you are) and that there is no need for me to say anything more, as it is pointless for me to argue with someone that condones such an action.
    You are arguing morality from the lofty position of distance and knowledge.

    An atomic weapon had never before been used. No one knew precisley the devastating effects of nuclear warfare. The physicists were probably the most attuned, but I can't imagine how they could have imparted this dreadful knowledge/intuition to Mr. Truman linguistically. All Truman knew was that it was a “super-bomb”. But what did this descriptive mean to him in real terms? It wasn't until after the Japanese surrender when Allied investigators entered the targeted cities that the true scope of death, destruction, and radiation poisoning was actually measured and realized.

    The testiment to this stark and horrific realization is that atomic weapons have never been used since.

  5. #145
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    Re: Iran passes redline, has enough U235 for Bomb

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    Moreover, my concern is not regarding what the Japanese leadership should or should not have done, but that surrender was a viable option to be explored by the Allied powers, and that the allies were fully aware of this.
    We did explore it.

    We said "surrender, now, or else we won't stop", and they said "well, let's waste your time by negotiating, shall we?"

    So we didn't stop.

    Any of the losers here that think bombing Hiroshima was a bad thing think Hitler's bunker in Berlin would have been an acceptable target if we'd had the bomb in August 1944?

  6. #146
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    Re: Iran passes redline, has enough U235 for Bomb

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    Moreover, my concern is not regarding what the Japanese leadership should or should not have done, but that surrender was a viable option to be explored by the Allied powers, and that the allies were fully aware of this.
    The terms for surrender were given to the Japanese. They were equitable and fair. They chose to reject them.
    If you believe in the Supernatural then you can become a millionaire!

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    Re: Iran passes redline, has enough U235 for Bomb

    Quote Originally Posted by Tubub View Post
    The Japanese had no intent on surrendering, they believed the United States was bluffing about possessing an atom bomb and if the US did have one, they surely did not have multiple. Actually, the US had 2 and if the Japanese had not surrendered after the dropping of both, an invasion would be imminent(It would have taken several months to develop another). Millions of Japanese and Allied troops would be killed, Japan would be a crater and would not be able to recover for at least a half century.
    The next weapon was going to be ready in about 4-6 weeks, well before the troops would have been in position to invade...they were going to be taken from Europe and shipped across the Alantic, and across the Pacific to Japan.

    However, after that 4-6 week period, the gadgets would be coming off fairly rapidly and a bomb a week would have been the norm. We had to fire the second bomb because the enemy thought the first bomb used up all the material we had, and because the enemy would have doubted our resolve to use it again.

    Those bombs saved millions of lives, it's absolutely incredible that some people can be so confused in their thinking that they can believe those bombs did more harm than good. They're even more confused because they can't seem to remember who started the war in the first place and what the Japanese did to every land they conquered.

    There's something wrong with them.

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    Re: Iran passes redline, has enough U235 for Bomb

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    No, they had no intent on unconditionally surrendering;
    Too bad for them, huh? They could have maintained their freedom to negotiate....if they'd not lost the war and had no means at all to defend themselves from something as simple as A SINGLE airplane flying over the city.

    They were so prostrate they couldn't be bothered to defend their airspace againat ONE airplane.

    Freedom to negotiate is a function of the possession of arms, something all the anti-gun fanatics refuse to admit is reality.

    They didn't have the guns, so negotiation was not an option we were required to provide them.

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    Re: Iran passes redline, has enough U235 for Bomb

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    You have no possible way of substantiating this at all. What we do know for a fact, though, is that the bombings ended hundreds of thousands of lives.
    What a totally ignorant statement.

    Since you never studied the Pacific War, except as talking points from your masters to highlight the evils of the United States, it's not surprising you could make such an ignorant statement.

    But it's still ignorant.

  10. #150
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    Re: Iran passes redline, has enough U235 for Bomb

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    Since you are repeating yourself, I might as well repeat my original response to the statement that you are repeating:

    You are now defending such a horrific action, to which I don't even need to respond, as what I stated to Scarecrow earlier applies to you as well:

    The fact is that you consider it acceptable to kill civilians in such an instance, to which I don't even need to respond. Your statement says pretty much everything about you that needs to be said.


    I never called you evil or applied any ad-hominems. I said that you are justifying the mass killing of hundreds of thousands of civilians (which you are) and that there is no need for me to say anything more, as it is pointless for me to argue with someone that condones such an action.
    So what about the fire bombing of tokyo? The bombing or Dresden, Berlin, operation rolling thunder? What about Napoleans march into Russia? How about the Norths scorched earth policy against the confederates?

    Your Utopianism withers in the face of the realities of history. War is hell, no doubt. But you abandon reason for your impractical ideals.
    If you believe in the Supernatural then you can become a millionaire!

    Questioning or criticizing another's core beliefs is inadvertently perceived as offensive and rude.

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