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Thread: Holder: US is nation of cowards on racial matters

  1. #151
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    Re: Holder: US is nation of cowards on racial matters

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmer View Post
    Jackson
    Sharpton
    Keyes
    Powell hinted at running.

    Those I know of.
    Sharpton was a race baiter... Jackson same... Keyes is a bit nutters at times and Powell... he MIGHT of had a chance back in the day.
    Climate, changes. It takes a particularly uneducated population to buy into the idea that it's their fault climate is changing and further political solutions can fix it.



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    Re: Holder: US is nation of cowards on racial matters

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    But that does not change the fact that racism does exist in the US and around the world, and in the US it is often pushed under the rug, especially by the Republican party.
    If you're claiming that racism exists then we need to strictly define the nature and scope of what you mean by racism. Is there overt bias? Laws now work to prohibit and punish outright expressions of racism. Is there covert bias? Probably, but I can't see any laws being able to change what is in the hearts and minds of people but which is not expressed in a way that can be proven to be racist. Is there institutional bias? Probably not. Many people assume that institutional bias exists because they see statistical discrepancies between groups, but these discrepancies usually aren't interpreted fairly. For instance racial wage discrepancies, when we control for cognitive differences, disappeared back in the late 70s:
    The analyses of the General Social Survey data from 1974 to 2000 replicate earlier findings from the National Longitudinal Survey of Youth that racial disparity in earnings disappears once cognitive ability is controlled for. The results are robust across many alternative specifications, and further show that blacks receive significantly greater returns to their cognitive ability than nonblacks. The trend data show that there was no sign of racial discrimination in the United States as early as 1970s. The analyses call into question the necessity of and justification for preferential treatment of ethnic minorities.
    Here is a chart which shows the returns to the highest levels of education.


  3. #153
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    Re: Holder: US is nation of cowards on racial matters

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Race doesn't matter it is the culture of certain races.
    No, race matters, and it matters across a whole spectrum of measurement variables. For instance, many people argue that it is the culture found in many Asian households that yields the infamous academic success found in Asian students. However, when researchers measured the academic success of White students who were raised in homes that stressed the familial principles stressed in Asian homes, the White students did worse than their peers raised in homes not stressing these "Asian" values.

  4. #154
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    Re: Holder: US is nation of cowards on racial matters

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    If you're claiming that racism exists then we need to strictly define the nature and scope of what you mean by racism. Is there overt bias? Laws now work to prohibit and punish outright expressions of racism. Is there covert bias? Probably, but I can't see any laws being able to change what is in the hearts and minds of people but which is not expressed in a way that can be proven to be racist. Is there institutional bias? Probably not. Many people assume that institutional bias exists because they see statistical discrepancies between groups, but these discrepancies usually aren't interpreted fairly. For instance racial wage discrepancies, when we control for cognitive differences, disappeared back in the late 70s:

    Here is a chart which shows the returns to the highest levels of education.

    Larry Elder ran through a whole litany of statistics during the election about the race issue. Time after time he illustrated there is no race issue except in the minds of the Liberals.

    Amazon.com: Stupid Black Men: How to Play the Race Card--and Lose: Larry Elder: Books

    A party that would vote men and women to war for political expediency and then turn their backs on them, attack them and their effort... also for political expediency... is a party that will also foment racial tensions for their own benefit.
    Last edited by zimmer; 02-21-09 at 05:33 PM.
    The Clintons are what happens...
    when you have NO MORAL COMPASS.

  5. #155
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    Re: Holder: US is nation of cowards on racial matters

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    No, race matters, and it matters across a whole spectrum of measurement variables. For instance, many people argue that it is the culture found in many Asian households that yields the infamous academic success found in Asian students. However, when researchers measured the academic success of White students who were raised in homes that stressed the familial principles stressed in Asian homes, the White students did worse than their peers raised in homes not stressing these "Asian" values.
    That sounds like different cultural expectations to me.

    If your peers of similar culture are not subject to the same rules then you begin to wonder why you are and get less motivated.

    I honestly just don't give a **** what color someone is. I'm way more interested on where they come from and what it is like.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

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    Re: Holder: US is nation of cowards on racial matters

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmer View Post
    You're disgusting.
    Why especially republicans?
    We have always aimed for equality under the law.
    Always.
    James Taranto reported on some research which validates this point:

    As Iyengar and his colleagues subsequently dug deeper into these data, another finding emerged: Republicans consistently gave less aid, and gave over a shorter period of time, to victims regardless of race.

    Democrats and independents were far more generous; on average, they gave Katrina victims on average more than $1,500 a month, compared with $1,200 for Republicans, and for 13 months instead of nine.

    But for Democrats, race mattered--and in a disturbing way. Overall, Democrats were willing to give whites about $1,500 more than they chose to give to a black or other minority. (Even with this race penalty, Democrats still were willing to give more to blacks than those principled Republicans.) "Republicans are likely to be more stringent, both in terms of money and time, Iyengar said. "However, their position is 'principled' in the sense that it stems from a strong belief in individualism (as opposed to handouts). Thus their responses to the assistance questions are relatively invariant across the different media conditions. Independents and Democrats, on the other hand, are more likely to be affected by racial cues." . . .

    Iyengar said he's not surprised by the latest findings: "This pattern of results matches perfectly an earlier study I did on race and crime" with Franklin D. Gilliam Jr. of UCLA. "Republicans supported tough treatment of criminals no matter what they encountered in the news. Others were more elastic in their position, coming to support more harsh measures when the criminal suspect they encountered was non-white."

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    Re: Holder: US is nation of cowards on racial matters

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    That sounds like different cultural expectations to me.

    If your peers of similar culture are not subject to the same rules then you begin to wonder why you are and get less motivated.

    I honestly just don't give a **** what color someone is. I'm way more interested on where they come from and what it is like.
    It has to be terrible to have people wonder if you are really qualified, if you really have the merit or are a product of quotas.

    Jason Blair, who was mentored by Joe Biden, spoke about this pressure/reality.

    Let's just have a level playing field and let the chips fall where they may. I'd love absolutely color blind, merit based progress of individuals. It's best for everyone, for society as a whole. That would be a great gift, a great example for the world to see and follow.

    It's the brilliant stroke of trust in mankind the Founding fathers blessed this nation with and put in our hands to achieve. Dr. King believed in this dream. We have reached the mountain top. And we're fumbling it.
    Last edited by zimmer; 02-21-09 at 05:45 PM.
    The Clintons are what happens...
    when you have NO MORAL COMPASS.

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    Re: Holder: US is nation of cowards on racial matters

    Quote Originally Posted by Arch Enemy View Post
    I think it is horrible legislation with a stupid intent, but I don't think it is racist.
    It's racist at the very core of its conception. AA looks at an individual's race and assigns value to that race. That fact that it is assigning positive, rather than negative, value is immaterial. What is pertinent is the use of race in decisions and the presumption that a person of a particular race is a representative of that race, so for diversity purposes, admitting a black man adds to the diversity of the institution. The individual is immaterial to the diversity calculation. What matters is the color of the skin.

    If we define racism as seeing individuals for the color of their skin then AA is racist.

    If we define racism as only doing bad things to people because of the color of their skin, then a case can still be made that AA is racist, but the case is not as watertight as when the above definition is used.

    "right" candidate? What does that mean? That blacks are politically inferior? That it "just wasn't the right time"?
    Obama was the right Black candidate, in that he didn't arise from the American Black experience, he didn't build a career as a prominent grievance monger like Jackson and Sharpton, he sounded very white, in short, for a lot of white people, he serves as a role model for how they wish most Blacks should act.

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    Re: Holder: US is nation of cowards on racial matters

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmer View Post
    It has to be terrible to have people wonder if you are really qualified, if you really have the merit or are a product of quotas.

    Jason Blair, who was mentored by Joe Biden, spoke about this pressure/reality.

    Let's just have a level playing field and let the chips fall where they may. I'd love absolutely color blind, merit based progress of individuals. It's best for everyone, for society as a whole. That would be a great gift, a great example for the world to see and follow.

    It's the brilliant stroke of trust in mankind the Founding fathers blessed this nation with and put in our hands to achieve. Dr. King believed in this dream. We have reached the mountain top. And we're fumbling it.
    I agree mostly because it would help me most.

    I hate the fact that its not what you know but who you know.
    I'm extremely stunted on that front.

    But more to the point it would be a wonder to show the world that it never matters what color you are.

    Some won't let that happen though.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

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    Re: Holder: US is nation of cowards on racial matters

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    I grew up being told that King guy had the right of it... ya know "judge a man by the merit of his character not the color of his skin..."
    Guess no one told him that wasn't the path to riches and power by the race hustle machine.
    And yet if King were alive today, the right wing (which has continually attemtped to gloss over King's radical message and reduce his legacy to a pursuit of a merely legal and technical equality of the races and not a substantive one) would condemn his socialist politics and his commitment to non-violence as unAmerican and a threat to our security. If he hadn't already been murdered, the right would be calling for his assassination. King was a radical and a socialist and if you think for an instant that he would be content with the fact that the average black family has 1/8th the net worth or assets of the average white family, or that we have a similar inequality of wealth as Bolivia, then you are sadly mistaken.
    I'm sorry, but I cringe when right-wingers invoke King. He was your enemy to the death.
    "We may have destroyed this country, but we got rich doing it!" --The GOP
    There is a special place in hell for those who care only about themselves.

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