• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Pope to US Speaker Pelosi: Reject abortion support

Only God grants prayer requests--Catholics know who is God and who are friends in the Body of Christ. Catholics don't ask saints to "do something" except to pray on our behalf.

Does this apply to dead non-saints as well? Can you go and pray to/ask your dead grandma if she is not a saint to pray for you?

You ask friends to pray for you? Catholics have friends in high places!

My friends are still alive.
 
Only God grants prayer requests--Catholics know who is God and who are friends in the Body of Christ. Catholics don't ask saints to "do something" except to pray on our behalf. You ask friends to pray for you? Catholics have friends in high places!

I'm not sure about this. I recently watched a new movie called Religulous (very fascinating, by the way), and in it the commentator visited the Vatican. A Vatican Priest met him outside to discuss various things, one of which was the use of Saints in modern day Catholicism.

In Italy, a survey was done to inquire as to who people prayed to, and why. Jesus came 5th on the list, with Saints taking priority. More people pray to saints than anything else, they are like the Gods and Goddesses of Catholicism. Of course, never say that to a Catholic because they will get peeved. I believe it to be equivalent though.
 
Does this apply to dead non-saints as well? Can you go and pray to/ask your dead grandma if she is not a saint to pray for you?
No prayer is a waste of time. I hope my dead grandma is a saint--even though she is not officially recognized by name as such.

My friends are still alive.
So are mine...My friends with God are even more alive than you and me in an objective sense.;) That's biblical.

Romans 6:7* For he who has died is freed from sin. 8* But if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him. 9* For we know that Christ being raised from the dead will never die again; death no longer has dominion over him.
 
I'm not sure about this. I recently watched a new movie called Religulous (very fascinating, by the way), and in it the commentator visited the Vatican. A Vatican Priest met him outside to discuss various things, one of which was the use of Saints in modern day Catholicism.
Religulous? Really? You think that is an objective, unedited version of what Catholicism teaches?:rofl And a couple of priests does not a religion make...you have a link to what your talking about? maybe a transcript?

In Italy, a survey was done to inquire as to who people prayed to, and why. Jesus came 5th on the list, with Saints taking priority. More people pray to saints than anything else, they are like the Gods and Goddesses of Catholicism. Of course, never say that to a Catholic because they will get peeved. I believe it to be equivalent though.
How is that relevant? And what were the questions on the survey--how were they worded and to whom where they administered. Surveys can be crazy skewed.:roll:
 
One would argue that if one claims to be a catholic then one should uphold catholic beliefs, not throw them under the bus just because they are in office.
This is correct. If you want to identify yourself as (x) then you need to hold yourself to the tenets of (x).

Else, you're just a (x)INO.
 
But if the Pope himself speaks out against it, doesn't he hold the ultimate authority as the representative of your god on Earth? If he really was chosen by God, then the words he speaks are also God's words.

It depends if he is speaking ex cathedra or not. If he is, it is to be regarded as the unfailing teaching of the Church. If he is not, we should note it, but we are not obligated to accept it as a matter of our faith. There are things the Pope speaks out about that I do not agree with. Though, since he is NOT speaking ex cathedra, it does not make me a bad Catholic.
 
Don't you ask God for things when you pray to him? How is this any different than praying/asking a saint for something?

I am asking the saints to interceded TO GOD for me on my behalf, much as we ask our friends and co-parishoners to pray for us to God. However, as the saints are in Heaven, we believe that they are thus closer to God.
 
This could be said about most religions. Some more so than catholicism.
If all had the same religion, and held to the tenets of that belief system,
"there would be far fewer problems in the world than there are now".

Should we debate which one would be the best?

Actually, if you follow the tenets of your faith and I follow the tenets of mine, it is ok. They don't have to be the same. I am an ardent Catholic while my wife is an ardent Buddhist. In many respects, our respective faiths have very similar teachings.

There was a debate back in the 60s between a Buddhist student (now a master) and Catholic nuns about which faith is better. The Catholic nuns argued the Catholic faith was better because of its history of Charity, something that the Buddhist faith couldn't match. The Buddhist novitiate agreed, and since then has devoted her life to the creation and development of a charity and compassionate organization based on Buddhism. It is called Tzu Chi and is almost universally known here in Taiwan today.
 
I am asking the saints to interceded TO GOD for me on my behalf, much as we ask our friends and co-parishoners to pray for us to God.

Can't you ask God on your behalf?

However, as the saints are in Heaven, we believe that they are thus closer to God.

Can you ask non-saints like dead relatives and friends to interceded to God or perhaps to other saints on your behalf?
 
Does this apply to dead non-saints as well? Can you go and pray to/ask your dead grandma if she is not a saint to pray for you?

She may very well be a saint and in Heaven. That is no problem. However, Saints are people who the Church has determined are undeniably in Heaven.

My friends are still alive.

I have many friends and relatives still alive as well. Sadly, some have also passed away - including my dad at the young age of 40.
 
Can't you ask God on your behalf?

I do, but what is wrong with multiple prayers. We ask our friends to pray for us, as well as the Saints. "Where two or more pray in My name...."


Can you ask non-saints like dead relatives and friends to interceded to God or perhaps to other saints on your behalf?

If they are in Heaven, yes. BTW, if they are in Heaven, they are by definition a saint.
 
Actually, if you follow the tenets of your faith and I follow the tenets of mine, it is ok. They don't have to be the same. I am an ardent Catholic while my wife is an ardent Buddhist. In many respects, our respective faiths have very similar teachings.
Thank you for your honest answer.

Wouldn't you say that there are some faiths, that if the followers strictly held to it's tenets that it wouldn't be "ok" or even compatible with other faiths?
 
Actually, if you follow the tenets of your faith and I follow the tenets of mine, it is ok. They don't have to be the same. I am an ardent Catholic while my wife is an ardent Buddhist. In many respects, our respective faiths have very similar teachings.

Interesting--I've always thought from the little I know about Buddhism that there is much that is similar in the worldview and the spiritual/ aesthetics, but I don't really know a whole lot about Buddhism.
 
Dear Catholic Friend,

I recently completed a petition to Withhold Communion from prominent Catholics in public life that dissent from the Church's teaching on a variety of serious moral issues including abortion, euthanasia, human cloning, homosexual marriage, and embryonic stem cell research to name a few.

I encourage you to do the same.

Canon 212 S3 of the Catholic Church states that the Catholic faithful have '..the right, indeed at times the duty, in keeping with their knowledge, competence and position, to manifest to the sacred Pastors their views on matters which concern the good of the Church.'

In response to this 'duty' please go to Welcome and complete a petition.

The goal of the petition drive is to generate a million petitions to give to present to our bishops asking them to take action. Also, please pray for the success of this petition drive.
 
Dear Catholic Friend,

I recently completed a petition to Withhold Communion from prominent Catholics in public life that dissent from the Church's teaching on a variety of serious moral issues including abortion, euthanasia, human cloning, homosexual marriage, and embryonic stem cell research to name a few.

I encourage you to do the same.

Canon 212 S3 of the Catholic Church states that the Catholic faithful have '..the right, indeed at times the duty, in keeping with their knowledge, competence and position, to manifest to the sacred Pastors their views on matters which concern the good of the Church.'

In response to this 'duty' please go to Welcome and complete a petition.

The goal of the petition drive is to generate a million petitions to give to present to our bishops asking them to take action. Also, please pray for the success of this petition drive.

A witch hunt? Yeah that ought to increase membership. :doh
 
Good times to be had throwing stones till the Bishops started visiting local parishes, walking the pews, and attempting to find out who is having premarital sex, who is on birth control, who got divorced, who is gay, who masturbated last night, who had an abortion, etc. Pretty soon there's no congregation left. Problem solved.
 
A witch hunt? Yeah that ought to increase membership. :doh
I agree. To respect the authority of the Church, I think the job of bishops should be left to bishops. The Church is not run by "public opinion"--THANK GOD.

USCCB - (Bishops) - Catholics in Political Life
.....The question has been raised as to whether the denial of Holy Communion to some Catholics in political life is necessary because of their public support for abortion on demand. Given the wide range of circumstances involved in arriving at a prudential judgment on a matter of this seriousness, we recognize that such decisions rest with the individual bishop in accord with the established canonical and pastoral principles. Bishops can legitimately make different judgments on the most prudent course of pastoral action. Nevertheless, we all share an unequivocal commitment to protect human life and dignity and to preach the Gospel in difficult times.

The polarizing tendencies of election-year politics can lead to circumstances in which Catholic teaching and sacramental practice can be misused for political ends. Respect for the Holy Eucharist, in particular, demands that it be received worthily and that it be seen as the source for our common mission in the world.
 
A witch hunt? Yeah that ought to increase membership. :doh
I wasn't aware that increasing membership was the goal; I always thought it was increasing the number of faithful. Experience has shown that when the Church liberalizes its practices, attendance drops; when it becomes more rigid, attendance rises. *shrug*
 
<object width="480" height="295"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/qyfmtUjNJEk&hl=en&fs=1&rel=0"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/qyfmtUjNJEk&hl=en&fs=1&rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="295"></embed></object>
 
It never hurts to remind them.

Because of the influence that Catholics in public life have on the conduct of our daily lives and on the formation of our nation's future, we declare that any Catholic serving in public life espousing positions contrary to the teaching of the Church on the sanctity and inviolability of human life, especially those running for or elected to public office, are not to be admitted to Holy Communion in any Catholic church within our jurisdictions: the Archdiocese of Atlanta, the Dioceses of Charleston and Charlotte. Only after reconciliation with the Church has occurred, with the knowledge and consent of the local bishop, and public disavowal of former support for procured abortion, will the individual be permitted to approach the Sacrament of the Holy Eucharist.
http://www.charlottediocese.org/customers/101092709242178/filemanager/CNH Docs/WorthyLamb.pdf
 
Thank you for your honest answer.


And you expected me to be ..... dishonest?

Wouldn't you say that there are some faiths, that if the followers strictly held to it's tenets that it wouldn't be "ok" or even compatible with other faiths?

I am not sure as I have not encountered any. I have been able to work together with in mutual respect faithful members of MANY faiths. Of course, I look at it from the perspective of a Catholic and while I may not agree with the religious faith of others, I respect them so long as they respect mine.
 
Back
Top Bottom