Page 15 of 23 FirstFirst ... 51314151617 ... LastLast
Results 141 to 150 of 223

Thread: Pope to US Speaker Pelosi: Reject abortion support

  1. #141
    Defender of the Faith
    ludahai's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Taichung, Taiwan - 2017 East Asian Games Candidate City
    Last Seen
    07-03-13 @ 02:22 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    10,320

    Re: Pope to US Speaker Pelosi: Reject abortion support

    Quote Originally Posted by Coolguy View Post
    When they are clear and unambiguous, you most definitely can comment on the tenets of another faith.

    Btw, just so you know, when I read the underlined portion above, I read arrogance. As opposed to perhaps, 'my Faith' or 'the faith'.
    Not that you are trying to convey such, only that is what I read.
    Granted, it would come across as being more arrogant if you used 'The Faith', but as used, I still read arrogance.
    I can't be blamed for what you read. "The Faith" in my quote was a clear reference to Catholicism. That you read anything other than that indicated that it is YOU with the problem, not me.


    I disagree.
    The common good you are speaking of is rooted in faith and not necessarily what is "common good".
    If it were proven that abortion affords this country more "common good" than the outlawing of abortion, then there would be a clear contradiction in stated position.
    The promotion of a culture of death is NOT a "common good." Besides, in the realm of social science, so not use the word "prove" as there is very little that can indeed be proven in a scientific sense. The proper terminology is "show."

    Only through misinterpretation of the Bible.
    You say this on several occasions in your post. Please make a point, or do you simply say this with no evidence to support it?

    No, it is not.
    It is a difference of opinion of which religion should stay out of.
    People have religious faith and those values are shaped by that faith. However, we are talking about the ending of a human life. We have an obligation as a society and as members of that society to put a stop to it.

    Only through misinterpretation of the Bible can this argument be used against abortion.
    Again, show us - don't just make such a statement.

    It is a matter of imposing your faith/beliefs, a faith and belief, regarding abortion that is based on misinterpretations of the Bible.
    ALL laws are a measure of the values of the society that are being imposed on some people who do not accept those beliefs. There is a small number of people who believe it is ok to kill other people, but the values of the majority of members of society imposes a prohibition on such activities. ALL laws involve such values.

    Only through misinterpretation of the Bible can this argument be used against abortion.
    You are sounding like a broken record.

    You are not supposed to, but that is exactly what you are doing and are using misinterpretations of the Bible to support this view.

    Broken record with no citation.

    No!
    If there is any judging going on after death, both will be judged.
    In regards to abortion, since the Bible clearly indicates that it isn't murder as you are advocating, those forcing their beliefs on others, even by voting for what they believe is the "common good", would be judged more harshly.


    All of us will be judged. However, those who accept Jesus as their personal Savior will be saved.

    Yep, like Timothy McVeigh, Eric Harris, Dylan Klebold and those involved in *911.

    * That is if Allah is the one and same G_d and really doesn't advocate what they did.
    [/QUOTE]

    They, along with many others - including those who perform and enable abortions.
    Semper Paratus
    Boston = City of Champions: Bruins 2011; Celtics 2008; Red Sox 2004, 2007; Patriots 2002, 2004, 2005
    Jon Huntsman for President

  2. #142
    Defender of the Faith
    ludahai's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Taichung, Taiwan - 2017 East Asian Games Candidate City
    Last Seen
    07-03-13 @ 02:22 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    10,320

    Re: Pope to US Speaker Pelosi: Reject abortion support

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    If Nancy can't obey the orders of the Catholic church, she's not a catholic. That's not hard to understand, is it?
    This is the only part of your post I don't agree with. Once baptized a Catholic, always a Catholic - even if not confirmed or excommunicated. At least this is what I have been taught about the position of the Church regarding on who is a Catholic.
    Semper Paratus
    Boston = City of Champions: Bruins 2011; Celtics 2008; Red Sox 2004, 2007; Patriots 2002, 2004, 2005
    Jon Huntsman for President

  3. #143
    Defender of the Faith
    ludahai's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Taichung, Taiwan - 2017 East Asian Games Candidate City
    Last Seen
    07-03-13 @ 02:22 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    10,320

    Re: Pope to US Speaker Pelosi: Reject abortion support

    Quote Originally Posted by Coolguy View Post
    Imho, for any religion that is based on the Bible to advocate something the Bible doesn't say, is, well, ridiculous.
    It also speaks volumes to me as to the accuracy of any claim of being the one true faith, let alone an accurate faith in the message the Bible conveys.[/I][/FONT][/SIZE]
    Unlike some Protestant sects, the Catholic Church realizes that you can't LIMIT the story of God to a book, which is by definition limited, and knows that the story of Salvation did not end in the first century A.D.
    Semper Paratus
    Boston = City of Champions: Bruins 2011; Celtics 2008; Red Sox 2004, 2007; Patriots 2002, 2004, 2005
    Jon Huntsman for President

  4. #144
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Last Seen
    10-06-09 @ 03:03 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    11,946

    Re: Pope to US Speaker Pelosi: Reject abortion support

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    This is the only part of your post I don't agree with. Once baptized a Catholic, always a Catholic - even if not confirmed or excommunicated. At least this is what I have been taught about the position of the Church regarding on who is a Catholic.
    One can publically renounce his/her Catholicism, and another occassion is excommunication latae sententiae:

    CCC

    2272 Formal cooperation in an abortion constitutes a grave offense. The Church attaches the canonical penalty of excommunication to this crime against human life. "A person who procures a completed abortion incurs excommunication latae sententiae,"77 "by the very commission of the offense,"78 and subject to the conditions provided by Canon Law.79 The Church does not thereby intend to restrict the scope of mercy. Rather, she makes clear the gravity of the crime committed, the irreparable harm done to the innocent who is put to death, as well as to the parents and the whole of society.

    2273 The inalienable right to life of every innocent human individual is a constitutive element of a civil society and its legislation:

    "The inalienable rights of the person must be recognized and respected by civil society and the political authority.

  5. #145
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Last Seen
    08-29-17 @ 09:28 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Left
    Posts
    16,575

    Re: Pope to US Speaker Pelosi: Reject abortion support

    Quote Originally Posted by Felicity View Post
    One can publically renounce his/her Catholicism, and another occassion is excommunication latae sententiae:

    CCC

    2272 Formal cooperation in an abortion constitutes a grave offense. The Church attaches the canonical penalty of excommunication to this crime against human life. "A person who procures a completed abortion incurs excommunication latae sententiae,"77 "by the very commission of the offense,"78 and subject to the conditions provided by Canon Law.79 The Church does not thereby intend to restrict the scope of mercy. Rather, she makes clear the gravity of the crime committed, the irreparable harm done to the innocent who is put to death, as well as to the parents and the whole of society.

    2273 The inalienable right to life of every innocent human individual is a constitutive element of a civil society and its legislation:

    "The inalienable rights of the person must be recognized and respected by civil society and the political authority.
    Cooperation of Adultery is also against the church's teachings, so if Catholics don't fight to make adultery illegal, they should all be excommunicated right?

  6. #146
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Last Seen
    10-06-09 @ 03:03 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    11,946

    Re: Pope to US Speaker Pelosi: Reject abortion support

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    Cooperation of Adultery is also against the church's teachings, so if Catholics don't fight to make adultery illegal, they should all be excommunicated right?
    What? That doesn't even make sense. Something being a sin doesn't make it something that would incur excommunication--everyone is a sinner. Ms. Pelosi formally cooperates with abortion by her public words and deeds.

    The Church also recognizes a difference in degree when it comes to moral wrongs. Killing children...that's a big no-no.

  7. #147
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Last Seen
    08-29-17 @ 09:28 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Left
    Posts
    16,575

    Re: Pope to US Speaker Pelosi: Reject abortion support

    Quote Originally Posted by Felicity View Post
    What? That doesn't even make sense. Something being a sin doesn't make it something that would incur excommunication--everyone is a sinner. Ms. Pelosi formally cooperates with abortion by her public words and deeds.

    The Church also recognizes a difference in degree when it comes to moral wrongs. Killing children...that's a big no-no.
    Cooperation of a sin, is against church teaches. By allowing adultery to be legal, any Catholic that does not fight it is cooperating with it.

    A sin is a sin.

  8. #148
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Last Seen
    10-06-09 @ 03:03 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    11,946

    Re: Pope to US Speaker Pelosi: Reject abortion support

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    Cooperation of a sin, is against church teaches. By allowing adultery to be legal, any Catholic that does not fight it is cooperating with it.
    Committing adultery would be sin. Aiding your BFF to commit adultury would be a sin. Promoting adultery would be a sin.

    A sin is a sin.
    Sin is NOT sin. All sins are not equal. See 1 John 5: 16-18.

  9. #149
    Banned Coolguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Last Seen
    01-26-10 @ 03:40 AM
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    846

    Re: Pope to US Speaker Pelosi: Reject abortion support

    Quote Originally Posted by Felicity View Post
    That doesn't even make sense.
    Sorry you are confused.
    Pelosi isn't following the rules so to say, and as the Bible is the rule book so to say, then the Church isn't following it either, but makes up rules as it deems fit. Hypocrisy.



    Quote Originally Posted by Felicity View Post
    If you do hold the Bible as an authority, upon what authority do you consider the books of the Bible to be the word of God, rather than the myriad other "gospel" texts with historical significance?
    Why don't you tell me.


    Quote Originally Posted by Felicity View Post
    Further--there is Biblical evidence of an authoritative hierarchical Church protected by the Holy Spirit. I'd be happy to supply that for you, but it's actually not relevant to the speaker's current stupidity.
    Please, supply away.


    Quote Originally Posted by Felicity View Post
    Hey, coolguy...why not "the Gospel of Thomas" hmmmmmm?
    You tell me.


    Quote Originally Posted by Felicity View Post
    Speaker Pelosi has not been excommunicated by the Vatican....yet.
    Which just further shows why it was a bad analogy.


    :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    I can't be blamed for what you read. "The Faith" in my quote was a clear reference to Catholicism. That you read anything other than that indicated that it is YOU with the problem, not me.
    I thought as much.
    It is arrogant.
    Sorry you can't see that.



    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    The promotion of a culture of death is NOT a "common good."
    You choose to call it a culture of death. That is nothing more than opinion. A biased one at that.
    And not at all accurate.
    But like said, if it could be proven that abortion was better for society, etc...



    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    People have religious faith and those values are shaped by that faith. However, we are talking about the ending of a human life. We have an obligation as a society and as members of that society to put a stop to it.
    We are speaking about abortion, so no, you do not. Especially not when you are supporting a religious view over that of the free will of the people and the exercise thereof.

    If there comes a time when the planet is over populated for the amount of resources, the obligation as a society and as members of that society will be to limit said births. Forced abortion would be used as a tool to keep the birth rate where it was deemed necessary.

    The only time one could use 'obligation' and 'common good' in regards to outlawing abortion, is if there is a need to increase the population.
    We have no such need.



    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    ALL laws are a measure of the values of the society that are being imposed on some people who do not accept those beliefs. There is a small number of people who believe it is ok to kill other people, but the values of the majority of members of society imposes a prohibition on such activities. ALL laws involve such values.
    I agree.
    Yet since this discussion is, in as much, about the act of abortion, it isn't an act of killing other people.



    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    All of us will be judged. However, those who accept Jesus as their personal Savior will be saved.
    Nothing more than an unsupportable belief.


    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    - including those who perform and enable abortions.
    An unsupportable position.


    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    Unlike some Protestant sects, the Catholic Church realizes that you can't LIMIT the story of God to a book, which is by definition limited, and knows that the story of Salvation did not end in the first century A.D.
    Yeah, they made it up. Understood.
    Like I said: "... for any religion that is based on the Bible to advocate something the Bible doesn't say, is, well, ridiculous."



    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    You say this on several occasions in your post. Please make a point, or do you simply say this with no evidence to support it?
    and
    Again, show us - don't just make such a statement.
    and
    You are sounding like a broken record.
    and
    Broken record with no citation.
    It is common knowledge that the Bible contradictory and has been, not only mistranslated but misinterpreted.
    Why would I need to cite what is common knowledge?


    Or perhaps are you saying that you do not know what the Bible says regarding a fetus or what it says regarding when life begins?

    If so, here.
    You should already know that the Bible considers life at breath.

    What the Bible says regarding a fetus.
    Exodus 21:22-25
    22 If men quarrel, and one strike a woman with child, and she miscarry indeed, but live herself: he shall be answerable for so much damage as the woman's husband shall require, and as arbiters shall award. 23 But if her death ensue thereupon, he shall render life for life. 24 Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, 25 Burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.
    That is pretty clear and unequivocal.
    A fetus is not treated as life and therefore none of your business if a woman choose to have one.

  10. #150
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Last Seen
    08-29-17 @ 09:28 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Left
    Posts
    16,575

    Re: Pope to US Speaker Pelosi: Reject abortion support

    Quote Originally Posted by Felicity View Post
    Committing adultery would be sin. Aiding your BFF to commit adultury would be a sin. Promoting adultery would be a sin.
    By not making adultery illegal, you are cooperating with that sin. THAT is against church teachings. No way out of that one.

Page 15 of 23 FirstFirst ... 51314151617 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •