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Thread: Pope to US Speaker Pelosi: Reject abortion support

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    Re: Pope to US Speaker Pelosi: Reject abortion support

    Gee, that worked well.

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    Re: Pope to US Speaker Pelosi: Reject abortion support

    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Man View Post
    Sometimes the authority has to be reminded of its own rules.
    That's from 2004...I think they know...

    EWTN.com - Archbishop Responds to Pelosi-Pope Meeting

    Despite popular belief, Ms. Pelosi has a soul in need of salvation, too. The hope is that she will assent to what is right.

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    Re: Pope to US Speaker Pelosi: Reject abortion support

    It never hurts to remind them.

    Because of the influence that Catholics in public life have on the conduct of our daily lives and on the formation of our nation's future, we declare that any Catholic serving in public life espousing positions contrary to the teaching of the Church on the sanctity and inviolability of human life, especially those running for or elected to public office, are not to be admitted to Holy Communion in any Catholic church within our jurisdictions: the Archdiocese of Atlanta, the Dioceses of Charleston and Charlotte. Only after reconciliation with the Church has occurred, with the knowledge and consent of the local bishop, and public disavowal of former support for procured abortion, will the individual be permitted to approach the Sacrament of the Holy Eucharist.
    http://www.charlottediocese.org/cust...WorthyLamb.pdf

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    Re: Pope to US Speaker Pelosi: Reject abortion support

    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Man View Post
    That looks like the bishops recognize it. I guess I'm too uninformed to understand your point.

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    Re: Pope to US Speaker Pelosi: Reject abortion support

    Quote Originally Posted by Coolguy View Post
    Thank you for your honest answer.


    And you expected me to be ..... dishonest?

    Wouldn't you say that there are some faiths, that if the followers strictly held to it's tenets that it wouldn't be "ok" or even compatible with other faiths?
    I am not sure as I have not encountered any. I have been able to work together with in mutual respect faithful members of MANY faiths. Of course, I look at it from the perspective of a Catholic and while I may not agree with the religious faith of others, I respect them so long as they respect mine.
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    Re: Pope to US Speaker Pelosi: Reject abortion support

    Quote Originally Posted by Felicity View Post
    That looks like the bishops recognize it. I guess I'm too uninformed to understand your point.
    These bishops did. When they meet with the slackers they can point out how many emails they still get in support of this issue.

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    Re: Pope to US Speaker Pelosi: Reject abortion support

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou View Post
    Good times to be had throwing stones till the Bishops started visiting local parishes, walking the pews, and attempting to find out who is having premarital sex, who is on birth control, who got divorced, who is gay, who masturbated last night, who had an abortion, etc. Pretty soon there's no congregation left. Problem solved.
    As a Eucharistic Minister (or Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion if you prefer) I have always been taught that I may not deny Communion to anyone that comes forward and requests it. Even if for example, I know they are of a different religion. The only person that can do that is the Priest and then only at the direction of the Bishop. The decision whether to take Communion or not is generally left to the discretion of the Communicant. Each person should examine their conscience prior to mass and honestly consider what sins lie in their hearts and upon their souls.
    From the ashes.

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    Re: Pope to US Speaker Pelosi: Reject abortion support

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    And you expected me to be ..... dishonest?
    Well...
    based on your words embolded here;

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    You ignore the wonderful things the Catholic Church has done for nearly two thousand years as well as the fact that if everyone lived by the teachings of the Faith, there would be far fewer problems in the world than there are now.
    and even though I disagree with this statement as a whole it seemed as though you would have replied differently.
    So your honesty of including other faiths was refreshing.




    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    I am not sure as I have not encountered any. I have been able to work together with in mutual respect faithful members of MANY faiths. Of course, I look at it from the perspective of a Catholic and while I may not agree with the religious faith of others, I respect them so long as they respect mine.
    So be it.
    I wish it worked this way in real life as a whole, but the tenets of some faiths do not allow the existence of other faiths on an equal basis.


    ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

    As far as I am concerned, most who are anti-choice, have come to this based on beliefs that if are not straight from, then rooted in the religious teachings.
    Not at all unacceptable, but ...
    (keep in mind that we are talking about the Catholicism and abortion.)
    When it comes to voting, it is in sense, forcing one view point on others that do not agree.
    Nothing in those religious teachings say you should force people to abide by what the church teaches if they do not believe, does it?
    If a person's faith says they can impose/force it's values/beliefs upon others that don't believe, fine. Vote to your hearts out to try and make abortion illegal.
    But I do not think catholicism advocates this.

    If it doesn't, or if it specifically forbids forcing others to follow the beliefs of your faith, then voting to force others to follow what your beliefs are is wrong. The person should stay out of it and let others do as they choose.
    It is up to G_d to judge.
    I also believe that G_d will harshly judge those who try to impose/force their own religious values/beliefs on others, even if by voting.

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    Re: Pope to US Speaker Pelosi: Reject abortion support

    Quote Originally Posted by Coolguy View Post
    Well...
    based on your words embolded here;


    and even though I disagree with this statement as a whole it seemed as though you would have replied differently.
    So your honesty of including other faiths was refreshing.

    I think I have a history on these boards of being open-minded toward those with different beliefs (including religious) than my own.

    So be it.
    I wish it worked this way in real life as a whole, but the tenets of some faiths do not allow the existence of other faiths on an equal basis.


    PErhaps, but I Can't speak for those faiths. I can only speak from the point of Catholicism as I have been taught it and from my study of the Faith. Popes for quite some time have taught that Catholics should work with members of other faiths in areas where our beliefs and goals converge. There is no contradition between Christianity and working with others for the common good.


    As far as I am concerned, most who are anti-choice, have come to this based on beliefs that if are not straight from, then rooted in the religious teachings.
    If you are referring to abortion, it isn't a matter of being "anti-choice" or "pro-death", it is a matter that for many people of DIFFERENT faiths, abortion is the murder of an unborn child.

    Not at all unacceptable, but ...
    (keep in mind that we are talking about the Catholicism and abortion.)
    When it comes to voting, it is in sense, forcing one view point on others that do not agree.
    Keep in mind that not only Catholicism believes abortion of murder. Any law is a moral imposition on others. We have laws against murder, rape, and many other things? Are those moral impositions? Of course they are, but there is near universal agreement on those. What makes abortion different? More people think it is a "right" but a religious person (of many different faiths) would have to ask where one gets a "right" to murder an unborn child. This isn't Catholicism vs. other faiths, this is a matter of many faiths vs. those who don't have a religious faith.

    Nothing in those religious teachings say you should force people to abide by what the church teaches if they do not believe, does it?
    However, we do have an obligation to do what we can to protect innocent human life.

    If a person's faith says they can impose/force it's values/beliefs upon others that don't believe, fine. Vote to your hearts out to try and make abortion illegal.
    It isn't a matter of imposing our faith, it is a matter or protecting a human life.

    But I do not think catholicism advocates this.
    It does in cases of human life and its sanctity.

    If it doesn't, or if it specifically forbids forcing others to follow the beliefs of your faith, then voting to force others to follow what your beliefs are is wrong. The person should stay out of it and let others do as they choose.
    We are not to force our faith on others, but on the other hand, we are talking about the protection of innocent human life.

    It is up to G_d to judge.
    I also believe that G_d will harshly judge those who try to impose/force their own religious values/beliefs on others, even if by voting.
    In general, I believe this is a valid point. However, it is those who advocate the murder of innocent, defenseless human beings who are going to be judged. However, remember that we all fall short of the glory of God and we all need to be brought to repetance.
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    Re: Pope to US Speaker Pelosi: Reject abortion support

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    PErhaps, but I Can't speak for those faiths. I can only speak from the point of Catholicism as I have been taught it and from my study of the Faith.
    When they are clear and unambiguous, you most definitely can comment on the tenets of another faith.

    Btw, just so you know, when I read the underlined portion above, I read arrogance. As opposed to perhaps, 'my Faith' or 'the faith'.
    Not that you are trying to convey such, only that is what I read.
    Granted, it would come across as being more arrogant if you used 'The Faith', but as used, I still read arrogance.




    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    Popes for quite some time have taught that Catholics should work with members of other faiths in areas where our beliefs and goals converge. There is no contradition between Christianity and working with others for the common good.
    I disagree.
    The common good you are speaking of is rooted in faith and not necessarily what is "common good".
    If it were proven that abortion affords this country more "common good" than the outlawing of abortion, then there would be a clear contradiction in stated position.




    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    If you are referring to abortion, it isn't a matter of being "anti-choice" or "pro-death", it is a matter that for many people of DIFFERENT faiths, abortion is the murder of an unborn child.
    Only through misinterpretation of the Bible.



    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    Keep in mind that not only Catholicism believes abortion of murder. Any law is a moral imposition on others. We have laws against murder, rape, and many other things? Are those moral impositions? Of course they are, but there is near universal agreement on those. What makes abortion different? More people think it is a "right" but a religious person (of many different faiths) would have to ask where one gets a "right" to murder an unborn child. This isn't Catholicism vs. other faiths, this is a matter of many faiths vs. those who don't have a religious faith.
    No, it is not.
    It is a difference of opinion of which religion should stay out of.




    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    However, we do have an obligation to do what we can to protect innocent human life.
    Only through misinterpretation of the Bible can this argument be used against abortion.


    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    It isn't a matter of imposing our faith, it is a matter or protecting a human life.
    It is a matter of imposing your faith/beliefs, a faith and belief, regarding abortion that is based on misinterpretations of the Bible.


    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    It does in cases of human life and its sanctity.
    Only through misinterpretation of the Bible can this argument be used against abortion.


    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    We are not to force our faith on others, but on the other hand, we are talking about the protection of innocent human life.
    You are not supposed to, but that is exactly what you are doing and are using misinterpretations of the Bible to support this view.



    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    In general, I believe this is a valid point. However, it is those who advocate the murder of innocent, defenseless human beings who are going to be judged. However, remember that we all fall short of the glory of God and we all need to be brought to repetance.
    No!
    If there is any judging going on after death, both will be judged.
    In regards to abortion, since the Bible clearly indicates that it isn't murder as you are advocating, those forcing their beliefs on others, even by voting for what they believe is the "common good", would be judged more harshly.




    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    ... it is those who advocate the murder of innocent, defenseless human beings who are going to be judged.
    Yep, like Timothy McVeigh, Eric Harris, Dylan Klebold and those involved in *911.

    * That is if Allah is the one and same G_d and really doesn't advocate what they did.

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