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Thread: Pope to US Speaker Pelosi: Reject abortion support

  1. #101
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    Re: Pope to US Speaker Pelosi: Reject abortion support

    Quote Originally Posted by Felicity View Post
    Only God grants prayer requests--Catholics know who is God and who are friends in the Body of Christ. Catholics don't ask saints to "do something" except to pray on our behalf.
    Does this apply to dead non-saints as well? Can you go and pray to/ask your dead grandma if she is not a saint to pray for you?

    You ask friends to pray for you? Catholics have friends in high places!
    My friends are still alive.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

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    Re: Pope to US Speaker Pelosi: Reject abortion support

    Quote Originally Posted by Felicity View Post
    Only God grants prayer requests--Catholics know who is God and who are friends in the Body of Christ. Catholics don't ask saints to "do something" except to pray on our behalf. You ask friends to pray for you? Catholics have friends in high places!
    I'm not sure about this. I recently watched a new movie called Religulous (very fascinating, by the way), and in it the commentator visited the Vatican. A Vatican Priest met him outside to discuss various things, one of which was the use of Saints in modern day Catholicism.

    In Italy, a survey was done to inquire as to who people prayed to, and why. Jesus came 5th on the list, with Saints taking priority. More people pray to saints than anything else, they are like the Gods and Goddesses of Catholicism. Of course, never say that to a Catholic because they will get peeved. I believe it to be equivalent though.

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    Re: Pope to US Speaker Pelosi: Reject abortion support

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    Does this apply to dead non-saints as well? Can you go and pray to/ask your dead grandma if she is not a saint to pray for you?
    No prayer is a waste of time. I hope my dead grandma is a saint--even though she is not officially recognized by name as such.

    My friends are still alive.
    So are mine...My friends with God are even more alive than you and me in an objective sense. That's biblical.

    Romans 6:7* For he who has died is freed from sin. 8* But if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him. 9* For we know that Christ being raised from the dead will never die again; death no longer has dominion over him.

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    Re: Pope to US Speaker Pelosi: Reject abortion support

    Quote Originally Posted by Orius View Post
    I'm not sure about this. I recently watched a new movie called Religulous (very fascinating, by the way), and in it the commentator visited the Vatican. A Vatican Priest met him outside to discuss various things, one of which was the use of Saints in modern day Catholicism.
    Religulous? Really? You think that is an objective, unedited version of what Catholicism teaches? And a couple of priests does not a religion make...you have a link to what your talking about? maybe a transcript?

    In Italy, a survey was done to inquire as to who people prayed to, and why. Jesus came 5th on the list, with Saints taking priority. More people pray to saints than anything else, they are like the Gods and Goddesses of Catholicism. Of course, never say that to a Catholic because they will get peeved. I believe it to be equivalent though.
    How is that relevant? And what were the questions on the survey--how were they worded and to whom where they administered. Surveys can be crazy skewed.

  5. #105
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    Re: Pope to US Speaker Pelosi: Reject abortion support

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    One would argue that if one claims to be a catholic then one should uphold catholic beliefs, not throw them under the bus just because they are in office.
    This is correct. If you want to identify yourself as (x) then you need to hold yourself to the tenets of (x).

    Else, you're just a (x)INO.

  6. #106
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    Re: Pope to US Speaker Pelosi: Reject abortion support

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcana XV View Post
    But if the Pope himself speaks out against it, doesn't he hold the ultimate authority as the representative of your god on Earth? If he really was chosen by God, then the words he speaks are also God's words.
    It depends if he is speaking ex cathedra or not. If he is, it is to be regarded as the unfailing teaching of the Church. If he is not, we should note it, but we are not obligated to accept it as a matter of our faith. There are things the Pope speaks out about that I do not agree with. Though, since he is NOT speaking ex cathedra, it does not make me a bad Catholic.
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    Re: Pope to US Speaker Pelosi: Reject abortion support

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    Don't you ask God for things when you pray to him? How is this any different than praying/asking a saint for something?
    I am asking the saints to interceded TO GOD for me on my behalf, much as we ask our friends and co-parishoners to pray for us to God. However, as the saints are in Heaven, we believe that they are thus closer to God.
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  8. #108
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    Re: Pope to US Speaker Pelosi: Reject abortion support

    Quote Originally Posted by Coolguy View Post
    This could be said about most religions. Some more so than catholicism.
    If all had the same religion, and held to the tenets of that belief system,
    "there would be far fewer problems in the world than there are now".

    Should we debate which one would be the best?
    Actually, if you follow the tenets of your faith and I follow the tenets of mine, it is ok. They don't have to be the same. I am an ardent Catholic while my wife is an ardent Buddhist. In many respects, our respective faiths have very similar teachings.

    There was a debate back in the 60s between a Buddhist student (now a master) and Catholic nuns about which faith is better. The Catholic nuns argued the Catholic faith was better because of its history of Charity, something that the Buddhist faith couldn't match. The Buddhist novitiate agreed, and since then has devoted her life to the creation and development of a charity and compassionate organization based on Buddhism. It is called Tzu Chi and is almost universally known here in Taiwan today.
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    Re: Pope to US Speaker Pelosi: Reject abortion support

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    I am asking the saints to interceded TO GOD for me on my behalf, much as we ask our friends and co-parishoners to pray for us to God.
    Can't you ask God on your behalf?

    However, as the saints are in Heaven, we believe that they are thus closer to God.
    Can you ask non-saints like dead relatives and friends to interceded to God or perhaps to other saints on your behalf?
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

  10. #110
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    Re: Pope to US Speaker Pelosi: Reject abortion support

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    Does this apply to dead non-saints as well? Can you go and pray to/ask your dead grandma if she is not a saint to pray for you?
    She may very well be a saint and in Heaven. That is no problem. However, Saints are people who the Church has determined are undeniably in Heaven.

    My friends are still alive.
    I have many friends and relatives still alive as well. Sadly, some have also passed away - including my dad at the young age of 40.
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