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Thread: Israel engaged in covert war inside Iran: report

  1. #21
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    Re: Israel engaged in covert war inside Iran: report

    Quote Originally Posted by scourge99 View Post
    So Spanish history books compare truman to Hitler?

    Stick a fork in it, you're done.
    That's not what he's saying at all.

    He's saying that if someone nuked the US, Americans would equate that person to Hitler.

    And since many Americans equate Osama bin Laden and his 3,000 some-odd deaths to Hitler (which is nothing compared to either Truman bombing, or Hitler for that matter), I'm sure they would.
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    Re: Israel engaged in covert war inside Iran: report

    Quote Originally Posted by Joby View Post
    That's not what he's saying at all.

    He's saying that if someone nuked the US, Americans would equate that person to Hitler.
    So Japanese history books regard Truman as a Hitler?



    And since many Americans equate Osama bin Laden and his 3,000 some-odd deaths to Hitler (which is nothing compared to either Truman bombing, or Hitler for that matter), I'm sure they would.
    And they would be wrong.

    There's a clear distinction in the goals and means by wish the two men kill civilians that causes different labeling of their actions: terrorism vs genocide.
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    Re: Israel engaged in covert war inside Iran: report

    Quote Originally Posted by scourge99 View Post
    So Japanese history books regard Truman as a Hitler?



    And they would be wrong.

    There's a clear distinction in the goals and means by wish the two men kill civilians that causes different labeling of their actions: terrorism vs genocide.
    Isn't using atom bombs to make someone comply by scaring them into submission terrorism? The Japanese attacked military targets. We attacked cities.

    Right now they are trying to kick out one of our nuclear ships out of their harbor as we speak. They are very sensitive about it.
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    Re: Israel engaged in covert war inside Iran: report

    Quote Originally Posted by scourge99 View Post
    So Spanish history books compare truman to Hitler?

    Stick a fork in it, you're done.
    I dunno never read a Spanish history book, since I aint spanish. But I have read British, American, Danish and translated ones from other languages, and like most western history books, Truman is not vilified for killing 220000 people in 2 shots. What he did is justified in history books because it was to stop a war that cost millions of lives. They also do not glorify Truman for doing it. In fact the real good ones actually tell the story of him having a hard time making up his mind to use the nukes.

    Now if another person of lets say, the enemy, was responsible for 220000 deaths, do you not think that he would be characterized as a villain in some way? Most Axis "atrocities" during WW2 are today seen as that, atrocities, and the people involved are vilified. But we were the victors, and hence wrote the history books. If the Nazi's had won, then those acts would not have been mentioned in that light (if at all). See my point?

    Another great example is one I came over just the other day. You know the island of Diego Garcia right? Did you know that the island was inhabited when the British leased the island to the US for military reasons. The US demanded that the population was removed and the Brits forced them off. On top of that the people were denied British citizenship, despite being kicked off a British island... that has since been reversed thanks to legal action in the UK. Point is, where is that in our history books? And while we all agree that when Stalin forcefully displaced people, when Mao did so, or when other "enemies" did so, then it was bad.. but when the UK, US or other "allies" did it, then it is okay?

    Killing 220000 people in an instant is a horrible thing, regardless of who and why, but Truman is not put in that light is he now? Because the west wrote the history books and it was accepted that the instant death of 200000 people was some how acceptable. But Saddam killed 200000 people and is not exactly seen in the same view as Truman is he? Saddam was at war too. How about the allies bombing Dresden and killing 40000 people in one night. Not even the German's managed to kill that many in one night over the UK, but we don't think that the tactic of the USAF and RAF over Dresden was bad.. was war after all. But it is widely accepted that when the German's bombed London and other cities, it was almost a war crime.

    Or how about how American history books and movies portrait the Indian wars. The Indians massacred the white man and were bad, and the US Army was good and noble. Custer is a hero, yet he lost, not to mention, his actions were not exactly what I would call noble.. unless you think killing women and children is a good thing. Yet the Indians were for many decades seen as the "bad guys" and savages.. but of course they lost in the end and the US won.

    As I said, the victor writes the history and loser becomes the villain.
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    Re: Israel engaged in covert war inside Iran: report

    Quote Originally Posted by dirtpoorchris View Post
    Isn't using atom bombs to make someone comply by scaring them into submission terrorism? The Japanese attacked military targets. We attacked cities.
    The US military is a terrorist organization just like Osama's. No differences. Terrorism is terrorism no matter the intent, rationale, or circumstances

    Right now they are trying to kick out one of our nuclear ships out of their harbor as we speak. They are very sensitive about it.
    we've had issues with our military personnel and their civilians that flamed this uproar. That and not all Japanese are happy with the US having military at their country (as can be expected). Overall relations appear strong, nonetheless.
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    Re: Israel engaged in covert war inside Iran: report

    Quote Originally Posted by scourge99 View Post
    The US military is a terrorist organization just like Osama's. No differences. Terrorism is terrorism no matter the intent, rationale, or circumstances

    we've had issues with our military personnel and their civilians that flamed this uproar. That and not all Japanese are happy with the US having military at their country (as can be expected). Overall relations appear strong, nonetheless.
    Politicians are vying to get it out because they do not have the methods to deal with nuclear stuff and they are gaining mistrust a lot. It is docked in their biggest city and they fear of it going wrong in any imaginable way and want it out now. They are relating it to Hiroshima.
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    Re: Israel engaged in covert war inside Iran: report

    Quote Originally Posted by dirtpoorchris View Post
    Politicians are vying to get it out because they do not have the methods to deal with nuclear stuff and they are gaining mistrust a lot. It is docked in their biggest city and they fear of it going wrong in any imaginable way and want it out now. They are relating it to Hiroshima.
    People always fear what they don't understand. They irrationally equate the nuclear power to a ticking time bomb. Its a bit absurd considering the history of accidents of nuclear powered ships. They should be more worried about an asteroid or super tsunami to put this absurdity in perspective.
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    Re: Israel engaged in covert war inside Iran: report

    Anyhow, does anyone think planning to murder scientists is wrong?

    I have to wonder if Iranian plans to murder Israeli or American scientists were leaked would it still be reported as "covert operations"?

    I'd bet good money at least some media networks would bring out the old T word.
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    Re: Israel engaged in covert war inside Iran: report

    Quote Originally Posted by Slainte View Post
    Anyhow, does anyone think planning to murder scientists is wrong?

    I have to wonder if Iranian plans to murder Israeli or American scientists were leaked would it still be reported as "covert operations"?

    I'd bet good money at least some media networks would bring out the old T word.
    Wrong on moral grounds, not completely impossible in the world of espionage.

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    Re: Israel engaged in covert war inside Iran: report

    Quote Originally Posted by Slainte View Post
    Anyhow, does anyone think planning to murder scientists is wrong?

    I have to wonder if Iranian plans to murder Israeli or American scientists were leaked would it still be reported as "covert operations"?

    I'd bet good money at least some media networks would bring out the old T word.
    If you are asking whether nations are hypocritical when it comes to politics and propaganda then the answer is a resounding "YES!".
    If you believe in the Supernatural then you can become a millionaire!

    Questioning or criticizing another's core beliefs is inadvertently perceived as offensive and rude.

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