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Thread: Chavez now can reelect himself for life

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    Re: Chavez now can reelect himself for life

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    The act of nationalization is by its very definition authoritarian (aside from voluntary nationalizations such as that of Citibank and AIG). I was not referring to the reasons behind the nationalization (be it for collectivization or not) but the act itself.
    On what basis do you make these claims, considering that the purpose of nationalization included the delegation of management authority to democratic cooperatives?

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    Re: Chavez now can reelect himself for life

    On what basis do you make these claims, considering that the purpose of nationalization included the delegation of management authority to democratic cooperatives?
    Again, you are confusing the act itself with the intended outcome; the act is authoritarian because the government is exercising its authority over a given private enterprise.

    For example, in the case of a proletarian revolution, even though industry is socialized along democratic lines the act of socialization itself is authoritarian as it necessitates the act of the proletariat asserting its authority over the bourgeoisie.

    I am making these claims on the basis of the definition of the word authoritarian itself, stripped of its emotional baggage (authoritarianism =/= totalitarianism). Every government by necessity is authoritarian.

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    Re: Chavez now can reelect himself for life

    It is the nature of latino nations to follow the lead of one person. They are OK with it.
    It's nothing more than X's and O's.

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    Re: Chavez now can reelect himself for life

    Quote Originally Posted by Agnapostate View Post
    You haven't indicated that Chavez endorses or furthers "tyranny." Your "example" is that:
    That is enough for me. People have revolted for less.


    Quote Originally Posted by Agnapostate View Post
    Yes, it is. A bold start toward economic growth in addition to the gains produced by the oil nationalization. There's nothing remotely "tyrannical" regarding decentralized, democratic management of economic affairs as conducted by the aforementioned worker-owned cooperatives.
    If your that naive in believing it will prompt economic growth by all means go and live there.

    It is tyrannical because he is taking it from its owner and keeping it for the government with out due process.

    Democracy is for chumps. It is the exact opposite of an aristocracy or a dictatorship.

    It will not do anything but impose its unguided will upon the government until it collapses from stupid economic programs.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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    Re: Chavez now can reelect himself for life

    It is the nature of latino nations to follow the lead of one person. They are OK with it.
    Yes, and all of the brown people are genetically inferior to whites as well, right?

    It is tyrannical because he is taking it from its owner and keeping it for the government with out due process.
    No, it is authoritarian, and there is nothing wrong with that (unless you are an advocate of bourgeois property rights, which you are).

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    Re: Chavez now can reelect himself for life

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    No, it is authoritarian, and there is nothing wrong with that (unless you are an advocate of bourgeois property rights, which you are).
    Authoritarian as it is, I also believe it to be tyrannical. I apply my reasoning from history and not from modern revisionism that lets little tyrants get away with their crap today.

    If it is your property then I don't care. It has nothing to do with economic status.
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    Re: Chavez now can reelect himself for life

    Authoritarian as it is, I also believe it to be tyrannical. I apply my reasoning from history and not from modern revisionism that lets little tyrants get away with their crap today.
    Of course you do, because this is an authoritarian act with which you disagree. "Tyrannical" is basically an empty word anyways, just used to rouse emotions, the same way "socialism" is thrown around nowadays. It's just a way of saying something without really saying anything.

    As for your claim that Chavez is some kind of tyrant, well that's simply unfounded.

    If it is your property then I don't care. It has nothing to do with economic status.
    Who said anything about economic status?

  8. #188
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    Re: Chavez now can reelect himself for life

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    Of course you do, because this is an authoritarian act with which you disagree. "Tyrannical" is basically an empty word anyways, just used to rouse emotions, the same way "socialism" is thrown around nowadays. It's just a way of saying something without really saying anything.
    With others maybe, but I know what a tyrant is. Our set of politicians are little tyrants forcing their agenda on people who don't want it.

    Making people follow a set of rules completely opposite to natural law and just rule of law is being tyrannical.

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    As for your claim that Chavez is some kind of tyrant, well that's simply unfounded.
    Based upon my above belief he is.

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    Who said anything about economic status?
    You did.

    Bourgeoisie (RP /ˌbʊ.ʒwɑːˈzi/ or /ˌbɔː.ʒwɑːˈzi/, GA /ˌbʊ(r).ʒwɑˈzi/) is a classification used in analyzing human societies to describe a social class of people. Historically, the bourgeoisie comes from the middle or merchant classes of the Middle Ages, whose status or power came from employment, education, and wealth, as distinguished from those whose power came from being born into an aristocratic family of land owners. In modern times, it is the class owning the means for producing wealth. [1]

    Bourgeoisie - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  9. #189
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    Re: Chavez now can reelect himself for life

    With others maybe, but I know what a tyrant is. Our set of politicians are little tyrants forcing their agenda on people who don't want it.

    Making people follow a set of rules completely opposite to natural law and just rule of law is being tyrannical.
    "Of course you [think this is tyrannical], because this is an authoritarian act with which you disagree."

    You did.

    Bourgeoisie (RP /ˌbʊ.ʒwɑːˈzi/ or /ˌbɔː.ʒwɑːˈzi/, GA /ˌbʊ(r).ʒwɑˈzi/) is a classification used in analyzing human societies to describe a social class of people. Historically, the bourgeoisie comes from the middle or merchant classes of the Middle Ages, whose status or power came from employment, education, and wealth, as distinguished from those whose power came from being born into an aristocratic family of land owners. In modern times, it is the class owning the means for producing wealth. [1]

    Bourgeoisie - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    I never said anything about the bourgeoisie; I said bourgeois property rights.

  10. #190
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    Re: Chavez now can reelect himself for life

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    "Of course you [think this is tyrannical], because this is an authoritarian act with which you disagree."
    Authoritarian acts are wrong especially in this case.

    "In modern usage, a tyrant is a single ruler holding absolute power over a state or within an organization. The term carries modern connotations of a harsh and cruel ruler who places his or her own interests or the interests of a small oligarchy over the best interests of the general population which the tyrant governs or controls."

    Tyrant - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    While I agree he is not a single ruler yet, he is using harsh methods in my opinion to achieve his goals.

    I do not like democratic nor single rulers taking property for no reason other than fairness.

    It defies human nature and what modern governments were created for.

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    I never said anything about the bourgeoisie; I said bourgeois property rights.
    My bad, the owner rights over rule that of the producer because at one point in time the owner was a producer and had to earn it.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

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