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Thread: UAE bars entry for Israeli tennis player

  1. #111
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    Re: UAE bars entry for Israeli tennis player

    Quote Originally Posted by Vader View Post
    It's a statement not an argument. It happens to be the truth and I do not care if you don't like it.
    You seem to just make these random and inane "statements". It is silly and serves little purpose, it just makes you look foolish.
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    Re: UAE bars entry for Israeli tennis player

    Visa Is Issued to One Israeli Player After Another Is Denied

    The United Arab Emirates said Thursday that it had issued a visa for the Israeli tennis player Andy Ram to play next week in the Barclays Dubai Tennis Championships. The decision is a quick reversal of policy by the United Arab Emirates, which last week denied a visa to another Israeli tennis player, Shahar Peer, to play this week in the tournament in Dubai, one of the emirates.

    But Larry Scott, chief executive of the WTA Tour, said he would require a written guarantee that the nation would not block Peer next year and a timeline to grant visas “before I put the tournament on the calendar next year.” He said the tournament would also have to pay a fine to stay on the women’s tour.

    Larry Scott, chief executive of the WTA Tour, said he would require a written guarantee that the nation would not block Peer next year and a timeline to grant visas “before I put the tournament on the calendar next year.” He said the tournament would also have to pay a fine to stay on the women’s tour.
    What happened was a breach of our rules and a violation of fundamental sporting rules,” he said. “Politics and sports do not mix.

    In a statement announcing the Ram decision, Ambassador Sultan al-Qortasi, director of consular affairs for the United Arab Emirates’ ministry of foreign affairs, did not mention the Peer incident or the security concerns, prompted by Israel’s incursion into Gaza, that were cited by the tournament.

    Scott said: “It’s odd to see a statement that you’re letting Israelis play one week a week after you didn’t let Israelis play. I’m relieved to see that they changed the policy, but it doesn’t change what happened last week when they denied a player for no good reason the opportunity to play.

    Adam Helfant, the ATP World Tour’s executive chairman and president, said in a statement: “No player who qualifies to play an ATP World Tour event should be denied their right to compete on the basis of ethnicity, nationality or religion and we are happy that the Barclays Dubai Tennis Championships and the U.A.E. have shown that they share that view.” Kris Dent, an ATP spokesman, added, “We obviously share the WTA’s deep disappointment that the U.A.E. did not initially make the same, and right, decision in regards to Shahar Peer.
    Source: NYTimes

    The tour's release detailing the various sanctions against the tournament:
    Shahar Peer Ranking Points -- The awarding of 130 ranking points to Shahar Peer –- an amount equal to the points that she earned during the same week in 2008 (week of Memphis) that she was unable to defend this past week in Dubai as a result of the denial of her entry visa by UAE. Such points will remain on Ms. Peer’s ranking until such time as she has had an opportunity to earn equivalent points at the next tournament offering ranking points equal to the Dubai tournament.

    Shahar Peer Prize Money –- The awarding of $44,250 to Shahar Peer -– an amount equal to the average prize money that she earned per tournament (singles and doubles) in 2008, grossed up to take account for the increased prize money on offer at 2009 tournaments.

    Anna Lena Groenefeld Prize Money –- The awarding of $7,950 to Anna Lena Groenefeld, who was to be Shahar Peer’s doubles partner in Dubai and who was unable to compete in doubles with Ms. Peer as a result of the denial of Ms. Peer’s entry visa by UAE. This amount is equal to the average prize money that she earned per tournament in doubles in 2008, grossed up to take account for the increased prize money on offer at 2009 tournaments.

    Dubai Tennis Championships Financial Penalty –- The fining of the Dubai tournament $300,000 for breach of Tour Rules, By-Laws and conditions of membership related to the denial of entry to Shahar Peer. This fine amount represents the highest fine ever levied against a Tour member. Proceeds from the fine shall be used to compensate each of Ms. Peer and Ms. Groenefeld, with the balance to be donated to a charity or charities, to be determined by the Tour in consultation with Ms. Peer.

    Dubai Tennis Championships Financial Performance Guarantee -– The posting by the Dubai tournament of a $2-million financial performance guarantee by July 1, 2009 that the conditions described below will be satisfied.

    Dubai Tennis Championships Conditions for Continued Membership –- The establishment of a series of conditions to be met by the Dubai tournament in order to maintain its membership and be included on the Tour’s 2010 calendar, including: (i) confirmation of the written assurances already received that all players who qualify for the tournament shall, regardless of nationality, or any other reason, be allowed to play in the Dubai event and shall be issued entry visas or permits, (ii) proof of approved UAE entry permit to enter the UAE for any Israeli player a minimum of eight (8) weeks prior to the start of the 2010 Dubai tournament, and (iii) guarantee that Ms. Peer shall be offered a wildcard to play the Dubai tournament in 2010 in the event that she does not qualify by ranking.
    Source: LATimes

    Some folks on this board need their moral compass recalibrated.

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  3. #113
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    Re: UAE bars entry for Israeli tennis player

    I heard this on the news this morning and was delighted to see that the WTA was coming down hard and very quickly. Hopefully the sheiks in Dubai and Abu Dhabi have learned their lesson. They understand money and that is a goodly sum for a first offense.
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    Re: UAE bars entry for Israeli tennis player

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Err, no they were denied to leave through Israel. There are no airports that are not under Israeli control in the Palestinian areas.
    And that is inconsistent with what I said. ... how?


    Give me a break. The ultimate hypocritical hyperhole.
    So, hyperbole is truth now? Works for me.


    Not the same thing? It is a sports event lol. So what if it is "internationally sanctioned event".. what ever happened to no politics in sport? Hypocrite. Plus it was the Palestinian Youth team.. they represent the Palestinans... so yes it was an "internationally sanctioned event" by any standard. When a team representing a nation goes on tour.. it is. And the reason they were too poor? But the point is yet again, Palestinians were denied visa.
    If you remember my point, it was in reference to internationally sanctioned sporting events. The trip of the Palestinian youth team to a tour of friendlies in England was sanctioned by whom? If you are going to say FIFA, they don't typically sanction friendlies by youth teams - only international tournaments.

    Of course it is the same. So the British Championship is not an internationally accepted and sanctioned organisation? They are you know... by FIFA and UEFA.
    There hasn't been a British Championship for decades back in the days when the Home Nations Championship was contested.

    As for the EPL, that is a DOMESTIC LEAGUE, and by definition NOT an international sporting event. It is sanctioned by the FA and while the FA is a member of UEFA and FIFA, those are not the sanctioning bodies of the EPL. The FA is. All teams in the FA are from England except for a handful what are from Wales (Cardiff and Swansea spring immediately to mind.)

    Nope, just an example of a visa denial.. he happens to be a former sports star.. but /shrug
    Which had nothing at all to do with sports.

    The Tibetans would disagree with you.
    It doesn't change the fact that it is not a FIFA member and there was no international sanctioning authority for their tour of France, thus fails the test I set out. Try again.

    And? Still does not change the fact that the US denied visas.
    You are obviously missing the point. Cuba obviously qualified for the tournament. Thus, it is logical to assume that they were eventually granted the visas. It would not be the only time the US announced that Cubas would be denied entry to later have that decision reversed. The 2006 WBC comes to mind as another such instance.

    Lets see.. The Palestinian's were denied by Israel to travel to internationally sanctioned sports events and you gloss over it and mumble something about "it is a war zone". Talk about a double standard and being a hypocrite... is sport not to be mixed with politics?
    That is EXIT, not granting someone entry for a tournament. Try again.

    A cuban baseball team was denied access to the US, and all you can say is they went on to win the final tournament? You do know that Cubans have hell of a time getting a visa to the US right? That there had to be a new law to make it possible for professional Cuban baseball players to have easier access to the US?
    See above. Cubans have a difficult time getting visas to the US due to US law in the aftermath of the illegal nationalization of U.S. held property in Cuba.

    On top of that you refuse to accept that a Youth Football team representing a country going on a tour in another country is not "internationally sanctioned". Is it because they are poor or kids? Or because they are Palestinians and most likely Muslims that you wont accept this as evidence?
    Who was the sanctioning authority?

    Also you refuse to accept that work permits (aka Visa's) to the professional football league is "internationally sanctioned".
    The EPL is DOMESTICALLY sanctioned, not international. The FA is a member of UEFA and FIFA, but neither of those later organizations sanction the EPL. In fact, the English FA PRECEDES both of those international sanctioning authorities.

    How about this one then
    FIFA cancels Fiji/NZ World Cup qualifier over visa impasse

    It has big words like FIFA, visa denied and world cup qualifier. Is that acceptable?
    For which New Zealand was punished (though in my opinion not harshly enough) by the loss of the home match in the home-and-home qualifying series. THough, let's be honest as well. It was a denial of a visa to one member of the team who had connections to the military who had recently illegally toppled the elected government of Fiji.

    Or this one

    Home Office rejects Man City move for Iraqi hero midfielder Nashat Akram | Manchester City - Times Online

    Is Manchester City an "internationally sanctioned" team? Hope so, since they playing my home team in the UEFA cup tomorrow....Is he not a big enough "international player"?
    They are a DOMESTIC team in a DOMESTIC league. The team is not SANCTIONED by EUFA. They are in a DOMESTIC LEAGUE that is subject to DOMESTIC laws. The laws are designed to not allow too much a flood of foreigners and thus not take too many places from local players and thus stunt the development of local talent - something that EU laws already makes exceedingly difficult. As for him being a big enough "international player" as his national team was not in the top 70 in the FIFA rankings at the time, he was not even eligible for consideration. Even being in the top ten doesn't guarantee work permits as a couple of American players found out about four years ago back when the US was ranked in the top five.

    Or this one

    Iran protests U.S. visa denial to blind athletes

    Not only do they deny visa for an internationally sanctioned event, but the athletes are blind! Or do you not accept handicapped sports at a World Championship as "internationally sanctioned events"?
    This is the best hit you have thus far. I am still looking for the result of this, but the fact that they have awarded the competition to the same city again this year, it seems they must have come up with something acceptable in the end. I do not know, however. If it did stand, it was wrong. However, two wrongs don't make a right.

    I have never said there were many but there are quite a few situations where professional and/or national sanctioned sports people have been denied visa's to many countries for many different reasons.
    But you have only a single hit on my original request and didn't hit on the most obvious example from last year. But then again, that may be due to a pro-authoritarian bias you have in that it was Venezuela denying a visa to kids from a democratic country that you don't even likely think should exist.
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  5. #115
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    Re: UAE bars entry for Israeli tennis player

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    And that is inconsistent with what I said. ... how?
    These palestinian footballers were the official representives to an official internationally sanctioned FIFA event and were denied to travel to said game by a 3rd nation. It is exactly the same, making a football game dependent on politics... aint that the accusation that you and others have been throwing about either directly or indirectly on this Israeli female.


    If you remember my point, it was in reference to internationally sanctioned sporting events. The trip of the Palestinian youth team to a tour of friendlies in England was sanctioned by whom? If you are going to say FIFA, they don't typically sanction friendlies by youth teams - only international tournaments.
    So wrong.
    There hasn't been a British Championship for decades back in the days when the Home Nations Championship was contested.

    As for the EPL, that is a DOMESTIC LEAGUE, and by definition NOT an international sporting event. It is sanctioned by the FA and while the FA is a member of UEFA and FIFA, those are not the sanctioning bodies of the EPL. The FA is. All teams in the FA are from England except for a handful what are from Wales (Cardiff and Swansea spring immediately to mind.)
    Again wrong.

    The English teams all have to live up to FIFA and UEFA rules to be allowed to participate in said tournaments. This is done via the FA yes, but many of the rules come from FIFA and UEFA. One such rule is on transfers (transfer deadline), and then there are codes of conduct and so on. Another rule from FIFA and UEFA is one of solvency.

    It doesn't change the fact that it is not a FIFA member and there was no international sanctioning authority for their tour of France, thus fails the test I set out. Try again.
    And it does not change the fact that these people were denied visas to participate in a sports event. The "denied visa" for whatever reason the country wants thing...

    You are obviously missing the point. Cuba obviously qualified for the tournament. Thus, it is logical to assume that they were eventually granted the visas. It would not be the only time the US announced that Cubas would be denied entry to later have that decision reversed. The 2006 WBC comes to mind as another such instance.
    No I am not missing the point, you are. The point is that the Cuban team were denied visa in the first place to participate in an internationally sanctioned (your pet peeve) sports event by the US. It is irrelevant if they later on got a visa (which is not necessarily true, since you could stage the game else where or the host country could be deemed as looser) and won the overall tournament. The fact remains the US denied a sports team visa's to enter a US dependency. That is no different what so ever than this Israeli being denied entry.

    That is EXIT, not granting someone entry for a tournament. Try again.
    And there is a difference? Palestinians need exit visa's to leave their own country.. Denying a visa in or out, was the whole point of the discussion. In this case they were denied permission to exit their own country by a 3rd country. If sports is suppose to have a "free card" regardless of politics then this should not happen.

    See above. Cubans have a difficult time getting visas to the US due to US law in the aftermath of the illegal nationalization of U.S. held property in Cuba.
    AHHH so you admit it? Thank you. The US denied a sports team visa's due to political reasons. So the US is no better than the UAE.

    The EPL is DOMESTICALLY sanctioned, not international. The FA is a member of UEFA and FIFA, but neither of those later organizations sanction the EPL. In fact, the English FA PRECEDES both of those international sanctioning authorities.
    The EPL is an internationally sanctioned domestic league. It is sanctioned by UEFA and FIFA to be the official "first leauge" in England and because of this the EPL has to follow certain rules on various things. These rules are set down by FIFA and UEFA, not the FA. These are rules on transfer, contracts, pitch size, and so on. So yes the EPL is an internationally accepted and sanctioned league, just as the La Liga in Spain, and the Scudetto in Italy or the Superliga in Denmark.

    How about this one then

    For which New Zealand was punished (though in my opinion not harshly enough) by the loss of the home match in the home-and-home qualifying series. THough, let's be honest as well. It was a denial of a visa to one member of the team who had connections to the military who had recently illegally toppled the elected government of Fiji.
    And how is that different than the Israeli thing? Well for one the UAE said it was over security concerns. That is their right. New Zealand brought in politics by banning a player for the politics of a parent. Was it not you or one of your sympathisers that said politics has no room in sports? The UAE never admitted that the barring of the Israeli was due to politics, but security concerns. And if it was due to politics then they would have an equally as strong case as New Zealand and if you accept one, then you must accept the other.....
    They are a DOMESTIC team in a DOMESTIC league. The team is not SANCTIONED by EUFA. They are in a DOMESTIC LEAGUE that is subject to DOMESTIC laws. The laws are designed to not allow too much a flood of foreigners and thus not take too many places from local players and thus stunt the development of local talent - something that EU laws already makes exceedingly difficult. As for him being a big enough "international player" as his national team was not in the top 70 in the FIFA rankings at the time, he was not even eligible for consideration. Even being in the top ten doesn't guarantee work permits as a couple of American players found out about four years ago back when the US was ranked in the top five.
    See above. And if UEFA had not sanctioned Manchester City then they could not play in the UEFA cup.............

    This is the best hit you have thus far. I am still looking for the result of this, but the fact that they have awarded the competition to the same city again this year, it seems they must have come up with something acceptable in the end. I do not know, however. If it did stand, it was wrong. However, two wrongs don't make a right.
    You wont find much I suspect. Western English media does not report much about Iranian sports after all

    But you have only a single hit on my original request and didn't hit on the most obvious example from last year. But then again, that may be due to a pro-authoritarian bias you have in that it was Venezuela denying a visa to kids from a democratic country that you don't even likely think should exist.
    All my examples are 100% valid. The accusation was that countries do not bar sports teams or persons from competitions (you put in the Internationally sanctioned bit, with out defining it correctly) for political reasons. I have proven that.. even that Israel does it.

    Face it, any country can deny visa for whatever reason they want at any time. The only reason this case was blown up in the media was because she was Israeli.

    Tell me.. why has there not been a peep by anyone for the US evangelist and daughter that were just denied visa to the UK?

    Oh and for the record.. politics has no room in any sport, "internationally sanctioned" or not. I think the UAE was wrong and the WTA should take any consequences they see fit, however I stand by the basic right of any country to deny anyone a visa to access their sovereign territory... I might not like the reasoning, but I accept that it is that countries right to use that reasoning however stupid as an excuse to deny a visa.
    Last edited by PeteEU; 02-21-09 at 06:08 AM.
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    Re: UAE bars entry for Israeli tennis player

    Quote Originally Posted by Tashah View Post

    Some folks on this board need their moral compass recalibrated.
    Meh, personally I say a nation has a right to refuse entry to anyone they choose. This is what I advocate in Britain's case so I can hardly deny it to the UAE. It is up to the Tennis tournament to decide upon what they are to do. One must not forget this only a sporting event, I know in this bread and circuses world people treat sports and sporting bodies as some kind of intergovermental bodies like the UN or Nato but they in reality only boards for the organising of international competitions to hit balls around and such.
    Last edited by Wessexman; 02-21-09 at 08:31 AM.
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    Re: UAE bars entry for Israeli tennis player

    I am glad the champion of the event, Venus Williams, said something about the Peer situation. link

    During the trophy presentation, Williams spoke about Shahar Peer, the Israeli player who was denied entry into the United Arab Emirates for the tournament because of what organizers called security concerns.

    "I felt like I had to talk about her," Williams said. "I thought it was brave of her to come here and try and play despite knowing that it is not going to be easy for her. My dad grew up in an area where if you spoke too much, it was your life. So I felt I had a small opportunity to say something where everyone will listen."
    Andy Roddick will NOT defend his title in Dubai. link

    The WTA fined Dubai Tennis Championships organizers a record $300,000 Friday after Israeli player Shahar Peer was denied a visa by the United Arab Emirates, and U.S. star Andy Roddick later said he wouldn't defend the title he won there last year.

    "I really didn't agree with what went on over there. I don't know if it's the best thing to mix politics and sports, and that was probably a big part of it," Roddick said at a tournament in Memphis, Tenn.
    Good on the American players to stand up for what is right.

    As for Pete EU, I am sorry that you can't see the distionction between being "recognized" by an international sports authority and being "sanctioned" by one. As someone who had participated in a large number of such events in the sport of soccer in the past and currently participates in such road racing events, I believe I have a better idea of the difference and the importance of such than most on this board.
    Last edited by ludahai; 02-21-09 at 08:35 PM. Reason: add link
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  8. #118
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    Re: UAE bars entry for Israeli tennis player

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    Good on the American players to stand up for what is right.

    As for Pete EU, I am sorry that you can't see the distionction between being "recognized" by an international sports authority and being "sanctioned" by one. As someone who had participated in a large number of such events in the sport of soccer in the past and currently participates in such road racing events, I believe I have a better idea of the difference and the importance of such than most on this board.
    On the other hand one must recognise that FIFA or whatever is just a private sports organisation. It is not a branch of the UN and should not be treated like one.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

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    Re: UAE bars entry for Israeli tennis player

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    On the other hand one must recognise that FIFA or whatever is just a private sports organisation. It is not a branch of the UN and should not be treated like one.
    Though FIFA has more members than the UN.

    FIFA DOES have the right to sanction member FAs if they do not follow the rules - and they often do, especially when governments interfere with the autonomy of national FAs or if a government denies a visa - as FIFA sanctioned New Zealand for the case PeteEU brought up (and apparently ignored that the New Zealand FA DID receive a sanction for the denial of a visa) and as the IBAF did when Venezuela did not give visas to Taiwanese baseballers to participate in a youth world championship that the youths from Taichung qualified for by winning the Asian regional.
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    Re: UAE bars entry for Israeli tennis player

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    Though FIFA has more members than the UN.

    FIFA DOES have the right to sanction member FAs if they do not follow the rules - and they often do, especially when governments interfere with the autonomy of national FAs or if a government denies a visa - as FIFA sanctioned New Zealand for the case PeteEU brought up (and apparently ignored that the New Zealand FA DID receive a sanction for the denial of a visa) and as the IBAF did when Venezuela did not give visas to Taiwanese baseballers to participate in a youth world championship that the youths from Taichung qualified for by winning the Asian regional.
    FAs though are still private associations, they are not state depratments in general and shouldn't be. I know we live in a world of bread and circuses but that would not be a welcome event.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

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