Orchard Park businessman charged in beheading of wife

Laila said:

Is that Islam or your opinion of Muslim women shining through?

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There are plenty of religions out there that flat out shouldn't be practiced because they infringe on the fundamental rights of the individual, but Islam takes top honours.

As far as I am concerned, any law that infringes on the practice of either is fine in my book as they are barbaric practices that deny people basic human rights under the guise of religion.

Agent Ferris said:

I just don't understand why you would go to meetings of an organization which promoted things which you adamantly opposed. You said it yourself you don't have to belong to a sect to be a Muslim so why to go to one of the Mosques which is owned, operated, and promotes one of the sects?

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Reason why, I referred to her as being passive. She passively supports. The difference being, a passive supporter won't go out of his/her way to participate, give aid, assistance, etc., but neither will he/she do anything to impede

ric27 said:

Reason why, I referred to her as being passive. She passively supports. The difference being, a passive supporter won't go out of his/her way to participate, give aid, assistance, etc., but neither will he/she do anything to impede

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What would you expect her to do from London? I mean she says she doesn't agree with them and she would turn them in. What else can she do from where she is?

soccerboy22 said:

What would you expect her to do from London? I mean she says she doesn't agree with them and she would turn them in. What else can she do from where she is?

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Read on

Qur'an 3:28


Let not believers take disbelievers as allies rather than believers. And whoever [of you] does that has nothing with Allah , except when taking precaution against them in prudence. And Allah warns you of Himself, and to Allah is the [final] destination.



When Muslims are outnumbered by a stronger adversary like the US for instance, believers (Muslims) are allowed to show friendship outwardly but NEVER inwardly

So, basically when Muslims are outnumbered they are supposed to have two faces. Inwardly, they hate the unbelievers and long for the day Islam will dominate and outwardly, Muslims are allowed to pretend to be peaceful, tolerant, loving and kind

Bottom line - Smiling in our faces while cursing us in their hearts

ric27 said:

Read on

Qur'an 3:28


Let not believers take disbelievers as allies rather than believers. And whoever [of you] does that has nothing with Allah , except when taking precaution against them in prudence. And Allah warns you of Himself, and to Allah is the [final] destination.



When Muslims are outnumbered by a stronger adversary like the US for instance, believers (Muslims) are allowed to show friendship outwardly but NEVER inwardly

So, basically when Muslims are outnumbered they are supposed to have two faces. Inwardly, they hate the unbelievers and long for the day Islam will dominate and outwardly, Muslims are allowed to pretend to be peaceful, tolerant, loving and kind

Bottom line - Smiling in our faces while cursing us in their hearts

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Do you have any evidence that she is being two faced? Or how about the 10 or so close Muslim friends I have? I don't understand how you can judge an entire religion off an extremist minority.

Degreez said:

Do you have source for your assertion, or is it part of your mindless bullcrap rhetoric?

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Oh please. This is basic information unless you're too busy calling Americans terrorists during World War II :roll:

Nidal Hasan, Abdulmutallab and Humam al-Balawi are jihadists who were educated and came from privileged middle- and upper-class backgrounds. Hasan was an American-trained U. S. Army doctor, Abdulmutallab was a London engineering student and the son of a wealthy Nigerian banker, and double-agent Dr. Humam al-Balawi was a member of the Jordanian professional class.

9/11 terrorists Mohammed Atta and Khalid Sheikh Mohammed were both beneficiaries of Western university educations.

The Educated Muslim Terrorist | FrontPage Magazine

Speaking to CNN producer Ayman Mohyeldin Tuesday in his apartment in the upper-middle-class Cairo suburb of Giza, Mohamed el-Amir said he would like to see more attacks like the July 7 bombings of three London subway trains and a bus that killed 52 people, plus the four bombers.

CNN.com - Atta's father praises London bombs - Jul 20, 2005

The 7 11 bombers. All educated alll middle class.

For God's sake Degreeez this is basic knowledge unless you are in complete denial.

soccerboy22 said:

Do you have any evidence that she is being two faced? Or how about the 10 or so close Muslim friends I have? I don't understand how you can judge an entire religion off an extremist minority.

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If you've studied Islam at all, you have to agree that it is a proselytizing, expansionist religion. Islam believes that it has a mandate from God to spread around the world with the eventual goal that everyone will be Muslim. One, single issue separates Islam from the others and creates a potential threat. While Islam would be perfectly happy if everyone they encountered converted voluntarily, of their free will, they are commanded to convert by force if they can't do it peacefully. Further, deception of non-believers is not just forgiven, it is encouraged. This makes it pretty damn tough to trust them at their word.

Now, I'm truly sorry for who this offends, but I don't care if they are serving in the US military because, we are at war

I don't care about moderates and here is why. Your moderate may preach against violence, abhor violence or even fight other radical Muslims. But if they raise or influence one other person to become a Muslim, they have created a ticking time bomb. Because they can't guarantee that that one won't read the Koran and decide they're a true believer and are going to follow ALL of it.

The radical Muslims we fight are not "radicals", they are simply true believers and the moderates are really lukewarm, or apostate. They follow what they want to follow, or allows them to be comfortable and you will never know when today's moderate will suddenly get a dose of conscience and become a true believer. Or their son or daughter, or grandchild, or great grandchild.

You still haven't given any evidence Ric on how I am two faced.

Instead you have gone off on a rant about God knows what.
Another Muslim conspiracy no doubt.

soccerboy22 said:

What would you expect her to do from London? I mean she says she doesn't agree with them and she would turn them in. What else can she do from where she is?

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I would expect her not to go to a Mosque headed by someone who considers himself a part of one of the five major Islamic sects. Do Christians who don't believe in organized religion go to church? No. If she says that doesn't support these things then why does she go to a mainstream Mosque?

Agent Ferris said:

I would expect her not to go to a Mosque headed by someone who considers himself a part of one of the five major Islamic sects. Do Christians who don't believe in organized religion go to church? No. If she says that doesn't support these things then why does she go to a mainstream Mosque?

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Ohhh so I should isolate myself from fellow Muslims because they dare to follow a sect? :lamo

What is a mainstream mosque? No two Mosques or Imams are the same, bleeding twit

Agent Ferris said:

The typology of most terrorists is middle/upper class and relatively well educated:

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"Active during the 1966-1976 time span."

Do you have something that is actually recent and relative? Something not from 40 years ago.

Agent Ferris said:

I would expect her not to go to a Mosque headed by someone who considers himself a part of one of the five major Islamic sects. Do Christians who don't believe in organized religion go to church? No. If she says that doesn't support these things then why does she go to a mainstream Mosque?

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There is no 'head' of a mosque. There's a person chosen to lead the people during prayers (the Imam), but he has no authority over any Muslim. Neither does the person or group who owns the mosque (unless they prohibit them from entering).

Mind explaining what a 'mainstream mosque' is? Anyone can come into a mosque, it is a house of worship. I've even brought some of my Christian friends to my mosque (there's a basketball court there). They were quite surprised people come and go as they please throughout the day.

Despite whatever it is you believe, you have completely skewed view of Islam.

Laila said:

Ohhh so I should isolate myself from fellow Muslims because they dare to follow a sect? :lamo

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No you should isolate yourself from an ideology which promotes intolerance and oppression. Do Christians who don't believe in organized religion go to church every Sunday? I think not.

What is a mainstream mosque?

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Any which subscribes to anyone of the five major schools of Islamic Fiqh and supports the Ijma decided upon by the Ulama. Basically if your Mosque isn't vocally and adamantly opposed to the current Ijma then I would consider it part of the problem.

No two Mosques or Imams are the same, bleeding twit

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All mainstream sects believe the aforementioned things. If you are a member of a Mosque which is a part of one of the main five sects then you are part of that.

Degreez said:

There is no 'head' of a mosque. There's a person chosen to lead the people during prayers (the Imam), but he has no authority over any Muslim. Neither does the person or group who owns the mosque (unless they prohibit them from entering).

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You're right of course there is no such thing as the Ulama, there is no such thing as Fiqh, and there is no such thing as Ijma.

Mind explaining what a 'mainstream mosque' is?

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Anyone of them that does not advocate against the five main schools of Islamic Fiqh and the Ijma of the Ulama.

Anyone can come into a mosque, it is a house of worship. I've even brought some of my Christian friends to my mosque (there's a basketball court there). They were quite surprised people come and go as they please throughout the day.

Despite whatever it is you believe, you have completely skewed view of Islam.

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No sir I do not, all five mainstream sects of Islam believe that apostasy, homosexuality, and adultery are capital offenses and that premarital sex is punished through 100 lashes. That is current Islamic dogma and the only accepted interpretation today within mainstream Islam.

Degreez said:

"Active during the 1966-1976 time span."

Do you have something that is actually recent and relative? Something not from 40 years ago.

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Ya because the human species changed so much in the last 30 years. :roll: That is like saying that the typology of a serial killer actually changes with time.

ric27 said:

Read on

Qur'an 3:28


Let not believers take disbelievers as allies rather than believers. And whoever [of you] does that has nothing with Allah , except when taking precaution against them in prudence. And Allah warns you of Himself, and to Allah is the [final] destination.



When Muslims are outnumbered by a stronger adversary like the US for instance, believers (Muslims) are allowed to show friendship outwardly but NEVER inwardly

So, basically when Muslims are outnumbered they are supposed to have two faces. Inwardly, they hate the unbelievers and long for the day Islam will dominate and outwardly, Muslims are allowed to pretend to be peaceful, tolerant, loving and kind

Bottom line - Smiling in our faces while cursing us in their hearts

Click to expand...

How dare you make such an offensive and blatantly wrong generalization. My Muslim babysitter didn't hate me in her heart. My friend I had in lab doesn't hate me in her heart, and neither did my Muslim friend who offered to train me hate me in his heart. Are you seriously saying that all Muslims are commanded to be 2 faced and secretly hate all non-Muslims in their hearts? I have a Muslim friend who believes in her faith that non Muslims can go to heaven, and she personally told me that according to her faith that she believes I would be going there.

I see no where in that Quran passage that says to lie and deceive. I see it saying to not ally with disbelievers. Even the Bible says to not be unequally yolked and to be weary of those who may lead us astray.

digsbe said:

How dare you make such an offensive and blatantly wrong generalization. My Muslim babysitter didn't hate me in her heart. My friend I had in lab doesn't hate me in her heart, and neither did my Muslim friend who offered to train me hate me in his heart. Are you seriously saying that all Muslims are commanded to be 2 faced and secretly hate all non-Muslims in their hearts? I have a Muslim friend who believes in her faith that non Muslims can go to heaven, and she personally told me that according to her faith that she believes I would be going there.

I see no where in that Quran passage that says to lie and deceive. I see it saying to not ally with disbelievers. Even the Bible says to not be unequally yolked and to be weary of those who may lead us astray.

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Digsbe, there are some people in here that just truly hate Islam and want to paint all muslims with the same Brush. It's truly sad but you're not gonna convince them of anything.

Agent Ferris said:

You're right of course

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I know this. I am a Muslim who knows about Islam. You are a non-Muslim who's knowledge of Islam is laughable.

Agent Ferris said:

there is no such thing as the Ulama, there is no such thing as Fiqh, and there is no such thing as Ijma.

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How does that substantiate your claim that there is a head of a mosque? The Ulema are those who have become Islamic scholars. Ijma is what those scholars agree on. Fiqh is Islamic jurisprudence. None of those have any authority over a Muslim. A Muslim is one who submits to God.

Agent Ferris said:

Anyone of them that does not advocate against the five main schools of Islamic Fiqh and the Ijma of the Ulama.

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Now it's obvious you have no idea what you are talking about. It's obvious you never even stepped foot in a mosque.

Agent Ferris said:

No sir I do not, all five mainstream sects of Islam believe that apostasy, homosexuality, and adultery are capital offenses and that premarital sex is punished through 100 lashes. That is current Islamic dogma and the only accepted interpretation today within mainstream Islam.

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So when the Qur'an says "Let there be no compulsion in religion", those that believe apostates should be punished are going against the word of God. They will answer for their own actions.

Agent Ferris said:

Ya because the human species changed so much in the last 30 years. :roll: That is like saying that the typology of a serial killer actually changes with time.

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A study done four decades ago has no bearing on today's society. Or did you forget that society changes?

:roll:

Degreez said:

I know this. I am a Muslim who knows about Islam. You are a non-Muslim who's knowledge of Islam is laughable.

How does that substantiate your claim that there is a head of a mosque? The Ulema are those who have become Islamic scholars. Ijma is what those scholars agree on. Fiqh is Islamic jurisprudence. None of those have any authority over a Muslim. A Muslim is one who submits to God.

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All five schools of Islamic law and the Islamic leadership councils who set that law don't have authority over Muslims? What are you kidding me? Ya and the Pope and canon law doesn't have authority over Catholics. :roll: You guys are just freaking funny it's scary. Literally.

Now it's obvious you have no idea what you are talking about. It's obvious you never even stepped foot in a mosque.

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Yep Imam's don't follow the Islamic Law set by the Ulama. :roll:

So when the Qur'an says "Let there be no compulsion in religion", those that believe apostates should be punished are going against the word of God. They will answer for their own actions.

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And the Qu'ran likewise says: "They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them", and: "But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then are they your brethren in religion. We detail Our revelations for a people who have knowledge. And if they break their pledges after their treaty (hath been made with you) and assail your religion, then fight the heads of disbelief - Lo! they have no binding oaths - in order that they may desist." and numerous passages from the Hadiths likewise say to kill them and death for apostasy is the interpretation in every single school of Islamic Fiqh set by the Ulama through Ijma.

So it's nice that you don't believe in death for apostasy but that is no way reflective of the view held within mainstream Islam. Death for apostates is the ONLY accepted interpretation in ANY of the main sects of Islam.

Degreez said:

A study done four decades ago has no bearing on today's society. Or did you forget that society changes?

:roll:

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Yes you are completely right, criminal typology changes through time. :roll: Genius.

Anyways how does 2004 suit you?

Sageman (2004) 102 Salafi Muslim terrorists
from Saudi Arabia, Egypt,
France, Algeria, Morocco,
and Indonesia

25.69 (avg.
age of
joining)

18 percent upper class, 55 percent
middle class, and 27 percent
lower class

Sageman, M. 2004. Understanding terror networks. Philadelphia: University of Pennsylvania Press.


http://books.google.com/books?id=SA...&resnum=4&ved=0CCQQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q&f=false

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Degreez said:

So when the Qur'an says "Let there be no compulsion in religion", those that believe apostates should be punished are going against the word of God. They will answer for their own actions.

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And the Qu'ran likewise says: "They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them", and numerous passages from the Hadiths likewise say to kill them and death for apostasy is the interpretation in every single school of Islamic Fiqh set by the Ulama through Ijma. And I'm not here to get into a debate about your interpretation of the Qu'ran or Islam, what is important and all that matters is the interpretation of Islam by the Ulama. So it's nice that you don't believe in death for apostasy but that is no way reflective of the view held within mainstream Islam. Death for apostates is the ONLY accepted interpretation in ANY of the main sects of Islam. You can say you don't believe that all you want but you do not set Islamic Law or Islamic Ulama, the majority within the Ulama sets Fiqh through Ijma and the current Ijma in ALL FIVE schools of Islamic Fiqh is that apostasy is to be punished by death, there is no other accepted interpretation.

Agent Ferris said:

I would expect her not to go to a Mosque headed by someone who considers himself a part of one of the five major Islamic sects. Do Christians who don't believe in organized religion go to church? No. If she says that doesn't support these things then why does she go to a mainstream Mosque?

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Probably for the same reason that pro-gay marriage and pro-abortion Catholics still go to church regularly. You don't have to agree with all the silly man-made rules to feel you belong in a particular faith. There are millions of Muslims who, like Laila, would never dream of enforcing the apostasy, adultery, etc.. laws and who still attend Mosque and pray every day.

digsbe said:

How dare you make such an offensive and blatantly wrong generalization. My Muslim babysitter didn't hate me in her heart. My friend I had in lab doesn't hate me in her heart, and neither did my Muslim friend who offered to train me hate me in his heart. Are you seriously saying that all Muslims are commanded to be 2 faced and secretly hate all non-Muslims in their hearts? I have a Muslim friend who believes in her faith that non Muslims can go to heaven, and she personally told me that according to her faith that she believes I would be going there.

I see no where in that Quran passage that says to lie and deceive. I see it saying to not ally with disbelievers. Even the Bible says to not be unequally yolked and to be weary of those who may lead us astray.

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I think the problem we see here is a lack of familiarity with average Muslims and an exaggerated focus on what he perceives to be centralized Muslim dogma. He seems to honestly believe that every single Muslim in the world is influenced by the elite scholars and he seems to believe that this elite is centralized and actually agrees on everything, when the truth is there are such scholars in every country/region who don't necessarily talk to the elite in other regions. Furthermore, this elite has very limited power and influence, except in places where it's actually seized political power such as is the case in Iran.

Arcana XV said:

Probably for the same reason that pro-gay marriage and pro-abortion Catholics still go to church regularly. You don't have to agree with all the silly man-made rules to feel you belong in a particular faith. There are millions of Muslims who, like Laila, would never dream of enforcing the apostasy, adultery, etc.. laws and who still attend Mosque and pray every day.

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If you actually advocate abortion publically you do run the risk of excommunication. And if you're pro-abortion and pro-gay rights why would you go to a church and put money in a collection plate to support an organization that you don't agree with?

Anyways to say that anti-abortion and anti-gay marriage isn't a hallmark of the Catholic Church is like saying that death for apostasy, sodomy, and adultery aren't hallmarks of Islam. Yes not all Muslims believe such things but Islam itself supports those things.