• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Orchard Park businessman charged in beheading of wife

Agent Ferris said:
They will be judged by the Ulama before they are judged by their god. Maybe that's not the way you want it to be but that's the way it is.
Click to expand...

Now I know you are know ****.
No one can cast judgement on another Muslim but God.
Every Muslim knows this.
 
Agent Ferris said:
lol no it's a group of Muslim scholars which determine Islamic Fiqh IE Law, and they form consensus opinions with one another to form Ijma. It is a decentralized leadership structure but it comes to consensus centralized legal opinions which establish a set Islamic law.
Click to expand...

And no Muslim has to accept it as they do not speak on behalf of Allah or his Prophets.
 
Agent Ferris said:
Really? When did Salman Rushdie ever renounce Islam and claim he was not a Muslim?
Click to expand...

Rushdie: I was deranged when I embraced Islam -Times Online
SALMAN RUSHDIE has confessed that he pretended to “embrace Islam” in the hope that it would reduce the threat of Muslims acting on the fatwa to kill him.
Click to expand...
Rushdie now claims his reversion to the religion of his birth was all a “pretence”.
Click to expand...

He is not a Muslim.

Edit: Damn. Red got in there before me lol
 
Agent Ferris said:
lol no it's a group of Muslim scholars which determine Islamic Fiqh IE Law, and they form consensus opinions with one another to form Ijma. It is a decentralized leadership structure but it comes to consensus centralized legal opinions which establish a set Islamic law.
Click to expand...

Yet I doubt the Shia follow everything they say, or the Sufi, or the Deobandi or the salafi etc.

If they did, there would not be 5 different main sects of Islam as the Ijma would declare which version is the correct one
 
Laila said:
And no Muslim has to accept it as they do not speak on behalf of Allah or his Prophets.
Click to expand...

So if you go to a Sharia court you don't have to accept the judgement of that court? Are you saying that Imams don't have to accept established Islamic dogma? So right now what you're telling me is that a Muslim Imam right now could say in public that there is more than one God than Allah and Mohammad is not his prophet and he would not be accused of heresy and have a fatwa death warrant issued against him?
 
Agent Ferris said:
So if you go to a Sharia court you don't have to accept the judgement of that court? Are you saying that Imams don't have to accept established Islamic dogma? So right now what you're telling me is that a Muslim Imam right now could say in public that there is more than one God than Allah and Mohammad is not his prophet and he would not be accused of heresy and have a fatwa death warrant issued against him?
Click to expand...

I would never go to a sharia court to begin with anyway.

Oh man this is getting in the reams of beyond epic stupidness.

The Qu'ran states there is one God. No interpretation is needed. No difference of opinion there.
Qu'ran states Prophet Mohammed is a messenger of God. No interpretation. No difference.
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
Yet I doubt the Shia follow everything they say, or the Sufi, or the Deobandi or the salafi etc.

If they did, there would not be 5 different main sects of Islam as the Ijma would declare which version is the correct one
Click to expand...

There is Ijma within the five main Islamic themselves and on most issues there is an Ijma between the five as well, there is an Ijma between all five concerning the punishment for apostasy, sodomy, and adultery.
 
Redress said:
I know you don't really need my help to handle such easy debate, but I can't sleep right now...
Click to expand...

Not at all. Join in <3

I can't sleep either. It's 8am and I have a whole day of no work ahead of me and incapable of falling asleep :(
 
Agent Ferris said:
There is Ijma within the five main Islamic themselves and on most issues there is an Ijma between the five as well, there is an Ijma between all five concerning the punishment for apostasy, sodomy, and adultery.
Click to expand...

And yet muslims do not all follow such aspects do they?

Indonesia does not have a track record of killing people for Apostasy, sodomy or adultery despite having the largest muslim population of any country. Pakistan has tended not to follow those rules and regulations.

Let me guess though, they are not good muslims in your eyes though.
 
Last edited:
Laila said:
Rushdie: I was deranged when I embraced Islam -Times Online



He is not a Muslim.

Edit: Damn. Red got in there before me lol
Click to expand...


Um ya he never claimed that he wasn't a Muslim, he was saying that his claim that he had become a devout Muslim was only a pretense. Furthermore; once again Islamic jurisprudence is clear in the matter, all who are born to a Muslim father are by default Muslims, and if they leave the faith then they are apostates, and what's the punishment for apostasy again?
 
Agent Ferris said:
Um ya he never claimed that he wasn't a Muslim, he was saying that his claim that he had become a devout Muslim was only a pretense. Furthermore; once again Islamic jurisprudence is clear in the matter, all who are born to a Muslim father are by default Muslims, and if they leave the faith then they are apostates, and what's the punishment for apostasy again?
Click to expand...

So Muslim is a race?

Edit: careful how you answer that.
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
And yet muslims do not all follow such aspects do they?

Indonesia does not have a track record of killing people for Apostasy, sodomy or adultery despite having the largest muslim population of any country.
Click to expand...

That's because they have secular governments, that says absolutely nothing about the Islamic religious hierarchy.

Pakistan has tended not to follow those rules and regulations.
Click to expand...

Bull****, in Pakistan they have what is known as the Hudood Ordinance, adultery, apostasy, and homosexuality were all capital offenses. This was only very recently revised in 2006 by the womens protection act, which did nothing to change the punishments for apostasy, adultery, or homosexuality, however, what it did do was make it so rape could be prosecuted in civil rather than Sharia court; whereas, prior women had to provide 4 male witnesses to prove rape and if they failed to provide 4 witnesses they themselves would either be prosecuted for adultery (and face execution) or prosecuted for premarital sex and suffer 100 lashes.
 
Agent Ferris said:
Furthermore; once again Islamic jurisprudence is clear in the matter, all who are born to a Muslim father are by default Muslims, and if they leave the faith then they are apostates, and what's the punishment for apostasy again?
Click to expand...

I could give a **** about apostates.
It is not me who will be judged for other peoples sin, only God has that authority.
I'm too preoccupied with keeping myself from hell and my own sins to be worrying about other people
 
Agent Ferris said:
No it's an ideology and according to that ideology those born into that ideology must adhere to that ideology or they are considered guilty of apostasy.
Click to expand...

But Rushdie repudiated that ideology...
 
Laila said:
I would never go to a sharia court to begin with anyway.

Oh man this is getting in the reams of beyond epic stupidness.

The Qu'ran states there is one God. No interpretation is needed. No difference of opinion there.
Qu'ran states Prophet Mohammed is a messenger of God. No interpretation. No difference.
Click to expand...

And if a Muslim scholar or Imam today said that there was 2 gods what would happen? No Fatwa? No death warrant? You and I know exactly what would happen, if he was in a Muslim majority country he'd be dead in a week and if he was in the West he would have to seek protection from the state like Salman Rushdie and live the rest of his life watching his back.
 
Agent Ferris said:
And if a Muslim scholar or Imam today said that there was 2 gods what would happen? No Fatwa? No death warrant? You and I know exactly what would happen, if he was in a Muslim majority country he'd be dead in a week and if he was in the West he would have to seek protection from the state like Salman Rushdie and live the rest of his life watching his back.
Click to expand...

Hah.
No Muslim would ever do that.
 
Redress said:
But Rushdie repudiated that ideology...
Click to expand...

Rushdie never claimed that he wasn't a Muslim he claimed that when he said he had become a devout Muslim that he was only using it as a pretense. Find me a quote from Rushdie in which he emphatically claims that he not a Muslim. "Not very religious" =/= "I am not a Muslim".
 
Redress said:
But Rushdie repudiated that ideology...
Click to expand...

... hence why he is no longer a Muslim.

Nice one Red :)

Muslims are not Jews.
Being a Muslim is not done through blood but rather ideology.
 
Agent Ferris said:
O.K. something more simple then like claiming the veracity of the Satanic Verses?
Click to expand...

Sure there would be opposition but he'd have a right to say it and believe it
 
Laila said:
... hence why he is no longer a Muslim.
Click to expand...

Rushdie never claimed that he wasn't a Muslim he claimed that when he said he had become a devout Muslim that he was only using it as a pretense. Find me a quote from Rushdie in which he emphatically claims that he not a Muslim. "Not very religious" =/= "I am not a Muslim".

Regardless Rushdie was charged with apostasy and heresy and the sentence was death.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom