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Orchard Park businessman charged in beheading of wife

So now we're enemies?

Oh thanks for that heads up.

You hate me don't you Laila? I am the worst kind of kafir. One who is wise and has educated himself about political and religious Islam.
 
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You hate me don't you Laila? I am the worst kind of kafir.

Are you attempting to goad me Sgt?
You know me much better than that or at least you did before you went all extremist on me.
 
I don't hate you Laila and you are not my enemy. How could I hate someone as sweet and nice as you. Damn Im not very good at being an extremist.
 
So what you are saying is that Christians are a bunch of violent thugs engaged in violence against plenty of other religions, so is Hinduism and Buddhism

Hindu's and Buddhist are fighting in Sri Lanka, Buddhists are fighting other Buddhists in South East Asia, Hindu's are fighting Maoist in Nepal, India, Christians are fighting animists and other christians in Africa.

What other major sect of any mainstream religion is still currently calling for the death penalty in cases of apostasy, adultery, and sodomy? The only one I can think of would be Islam and once again that is not the fringe view it is the only accepted view held in all five major sects of Islam.
 
What other major sect of any mainstream religion is still currently calling for the death penalty in cases of apostasy, adultery, and sodomy? The only one I can think of would be Islam and once again that is not the fringe view it is the only accepted view held in all five major sects of Islam.

Well, it may not be a fringe but it is clearly not everyone that accepts that view either :/
 
Didn't you know?
Osama Bin Laden is now our representative

Must not have gotten the memo.

He may not be your representative but your actual representatives are still calling for the death penalty in cases of apostasy, homosexuality, and adultery along with 100 lashes for premarital sex and 4 male witnesses to rape and when the women can not provide them then they run the risk of being tried for adultery or premarital sex, unless of course you are a sufi in which case I apologize but the sufi's are seen as heretical by mainstream Islam.
 
I don't hate you Laila and you are not my enemy. How could I hate someone as sweet and nice as you. Damn Im not very good at being an extremist.

I'm surprised you don't now hate me considering I follow and hold sacred the same book you despise.

Don't worry, I'll wait for the day you log on and declare we all should die ... no wait, you've done that already haven't you?

Don't bother pretending your hatred of Islam doesn't extend to its followers. I should be no exception to that hate no matter how "nice" I am
 
Well, it may not be a fringe but it is clearly not everyone that accepts that view either :/

Are you sufi? Because to my knowledge that is about the only sect which doesn't still subscribe to that doctrine. All 5 major schools of Islamic fiqh in Sunni and Shia Islam still subscribe to that doctrine and if you do not you would be in the minority and possibly be labeled heretical especially if you were a cleric or Imam promoting that view.
 
Are you sufi? Because to my knowledge that is about the only sect which doesn't still subscribe to that doctrine. All 5 major schools of Islamic fiqh in Sunni and Shia Islam still subscribe to that doctrine and if you do not you would be in the minority and possibly be labeled heretical especially if you were a cleric or Imam promoting that view.

I do not subscribe to any one sect.
I believe Muslims should not be divided and me calling myself a "sufi" or any other sect is unislamic.
 
Are you sufi? Because to my knowledge that is about the only sect which doesn't still subscribe to that doctrine. All 5 major schools of Islamic fiqh in Sunni and Shia Islam still subscribe to that doctrine and if you do not you would be in the minority and possibly be labeled heretical especially if you were a cleric or Imam promoting that view.

You have to remember also that just because someone subscribes to a specific sect doesn't mean they accept everything in that particular sect.

I had a good friend from Iraq and his wife was from Iran, if I'm not mistaken their religious factions were not supposed to allow them to marry but they did.
Hell he knew I was part Jew and we were really good friends.

You can be a liberal Sunni or Shia.
 
He may not be your representative but your actual representatives are still calling for the death penalty in cases of apostasy, homosexuality, and adultery along with 100 lashes for premarital sex and 4 male witnesses to rape and when the women can not provide them then they run the risk of being tried for adultery or premarital sex, unless of course you are a sufi in which case I apologize but the sufi's are seen as heretical by mainstream Islam.

I have no representative.
Islam has no representative. There is no one on this Earth that has the authority to speak for Islam until Jesus returns.

I do not support the death penalty and I have always been a strong supporter of gay rights and on the topic of adultery.
It is not for me to be judge, jury and executioner.
I have no moral ground or authority to preach to other people on the rights or wrongs of their actions, it will not be me they will answer to but God.
 
So you don't go to Mosqu? You don't have an Imam? You don't consider yourself either Shia or Sunni?

I go Mosque every week and yes I have a Imam.
And no I do not consider myself Shia or Sunni.
I think the mere existence of sects goes against the priniciple of ummah
 
You have to remember also that just because someone subscribes to a specific sect doesn't mean they accept everything in that particular sect.

I had a good friend from Iraq and his wife was from Iran, if I'm not mistaken their religious factions were not supposed to allow them to marry but they did.
Hell he knew I was part Jew and we were really good friends.

You can be a liberal Sunni or Shia.

I suppose you can be a liberal Muslim if you don't go to Mosque or follow an Imam. You can not be a liberal Shia or Sunni, however, as both Shia and Sunni sects of Islam believe in the aforementioned punishments for non-crimes. I suppose you could technically be vocally opposed to such views but then you would run the risk of being labeled a heretic and being labeled a Takfir and that would entail the punishment for apostasy which is death. The Christian parallel I suppose would be excommunication for cases; such as, Catholics who are pro-life, it doesn't always happen but it is a distinct possibility especially when the individual in question is in a position to actually make a difference and change the minds of others.
 
I go Mosque every week and yes I have a Imam.

I thought you said that Islam has no representative on earth? Then what would you call the spiritual leadership of the Imam if not religious representation on earth? Does your Imam not subscribe to any of the five major schools of Islamic Fiqh? Does your Imam not consider himself to be either Sunni or Shia as well? And if he does subscribe to one of 5 schools of Islamic fiqh which I can almost guarantee that he does then why would you go to his mosque every week to listen to someone who you claim to totally disagree with?
 
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I suppose you can be a liberal Muslim if you don't go to Mosque or follow an Imam. You can not be a liberal Shia or Sunni, however, as both Shia and Sunni sects of Islam believe in the aforementioned punishments for non-crimes. I suppose you could technically be vocally opposed to such views but then you would run the risk of being labeled a heretic and being labeled a Takfir and that would entail the punishment for apostasy which is death. The Christian parallel I suppose would be excommunication for cases; such as, Catholics who are pro-life, it doesn't always happen but it is a distinct possibility especially when the individual in question is in a position to actually make a difference and change the minds of others.

Things may be different in context but the southern Baptist sect of Christianity can be pretty strict.
One of our forum members happens to be what I consider a liberal Baptist.

You may go to mosque for your spiritual fulfillment but may not ascribe to everything an Imam says.
 
I thought you said that Islam has no representative on earth? Then what would you call the spiritual leadership of the Imam if not religious representation on earth? Does your Imam not subscribe to any of the five major schools of Islamic Fiqh? And if he does then why do you go to his mosque every week to listen to someone who you claim to totally disagree with?

That is not leadership or representation of Islam or me.
I am my only representation. I should be judged as a person rather than as one of many followers of a religion.
My Imam leads my prayers and if I have a problem, I will discuss it with him and he will advise me on what the best course of action is and ofc, I go to him if I have questions regarding the Qu'ran, Why shouldn't I go to him even if he is with a sect?
 
I'm surprised you don't now hate me considering I follow and hold sacred the same book you despise.

Don't worry, I'll wait for the day you log on and declare we all should die ... no wait, you've done that already haven't you?

Don't bother pretending your hatred of Islam doesn't extend to its followers. I should be no exception to that hate no matter how "nice" I am

You are absolutely right, can't seperate Islam form the muslim. My attempt to reach out has been rejected, you have convinced me that my hatred for Islam is justified as is my hatred for the muslim.
 
You are absolutely right, can't seperate Islam form the muslim. My attempt to reach out has been rejected, you have convinced me that my hatred for Islam is justified as is my hatred for the muslim.

No you can't.
You hate me because I follow a religion you hate

Thank you for admitting it at least.
 
You may go to mosque for your spiritual fulfillment but may not ascribe to everything an Imam says.

Exactly.

I enjoy praying with others as opposed to by myself sometimes.
 
Things may be different in context but the southern Baptist sect of Christianity can be pretty strict.
One of our forum members happens to be what I consider a liberal Baptist.

You may go to mosque for your spiritual fulfillment but may not ascribe to everything an Imam says.

Sounds to me like a person who doesn't hate Jews going to a Nazi rally. This line of reasoning would not work with any other ideology save for a religious one, "I disagree with central tenets of your philosophy but I'm still going to claim to be a practioner of it and go to speeches promoting these central tenets every weekend." :roll:

Anyways if you are a baptist and you start vocally promoting say the right to an abortion you will find yourself kicked out of the church.
 
Sounds to me like a person who doesn't hate Jews going to a Nazi rally. This line of reasoning would not work with any other ideology save for a religious one, "I disagree with central tenets of your philosophy but I'm still going to claim to be a practioner of it and go to speeches promoting these central tenets every weekend." :roll:

Anyways if you are a baptist and you start vocally promoting say the right to an abortion you will find yourself kicked out of the church.

That's not it at all.

As a younger guy I went several places of worship where I didn't ascribe to their beliefs fully.
My parents were Christians and went to a church that believed in the holy trinity, I don't.
 
That is not leadership or representation of Islam or me.
I am my only representation. I should be judged as a person rather than as one of many followers of a religion.
My Imam leads my prayers and if I have a problem, I will discuss it with him and he will advise me on what the best course of action is and ofc, I go to him if I have questions regarding the Qu'ran, Why shouldn't I go to him even if he is with a sect?

Well if you want to go to someone for advice who not only believes but promottes the ideas that people should be stoned to death for adultery, homosexuality, and apostasy; and that you should be lashed 100 times for premarital sex then whatever floats your boat. It doesn't make much sense to me to go to listen to such a sick misguided backwards individual week in and week out if you don't actually agree with what he's teaching, but hey what do I know.
 
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