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Thread: Orchard Park businessman charged in beheading of wife

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    Re: Orchard Park businessman charged in beheading of wife

    Quote Originally Posted by EgoffTib View Post
    Good luck with that.
    I would never be able to figure out what does make this post funny.

    Funny wouldn't be the word for me...

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    Re: Orchard Park businessman charged in beheading of wife

    Quote Originally Posted by justone
    Yes, the end result is the same, when a policeman kills a criminal and when a criminal kills a policeman – we have a dead man as the end result. Nice spin.
    I fail to see what your example has to do with hate crimes. But, fine, I'll play along. Yes, the end result is exactly the same if both were acts of murder. Unless you're going to sit there and pretend that every single time a cop kills a criminal he is completely justified in doing so. Murder is murder no matter who commits it and for what reason. Sometimes cops have to kill, very often in self-defense or in defense of others. That is not murder. However, if there is no immediate threat and the cop shoots to kill he will be prosecuted.

    It would be a matter of honor to provide some references that would allow to equate problems of the Catholic world with problems of the Muslim world and to prove the same wide approval or indifference of the Catholic Clergy as we observe in Muslim clergy, - as well as to equate laws and actions of authorities of Italy and South America with laws and actions of Muslim authorities in Muslim countries. It is like SgtRocks has honor to provides references that may be cross checked.http://www.debatepolitics.com/breaki...-violence.html (Muslim women 'face crisis over violence')

    But it has been proven so many times that posters who bring Christians and catholics into any post where Muslims are discussed and who go into an endless spin trying to equate teachings, traditions, history and actions of Christians with teachings, traditions, history and actions of Muslims, who cast a blame on the West and the US for Jihad, - that these individuals do not have any idea or feeling of honor and morality.
    My point was not to equate Muslims and Catholics, but to equate the machista societies of Southern Europe and South America and the equally machista societies of the Muslim world. As many have already stated, the problem is not the religion, it's the approval of society at large. The religion doesn't matter when it comes to matters of family honor. I'm Italian, I know all about family honor and what it used to mean, and still means in remote parts of Calabria and Sicily. Fathers, brothers, cousins killed daughters, sisters and cousins for pretty much the same reasons Muslim men kill their women. Family honor. It's not about religion, it's about tribal traditions, patriarchy and the belief that women are either saintly virgins to be revered or cheap whores deserving only death. Catholics are taught to value a woman's virginity above all else. Keeping women honest in Southern Italy was, and often still is, a matter of family honor. The religious issue got so blurred with the societal dictates, it's very difficult to tell which came first. Either way, these crimes are thankfully becoming more and more rare, not just due to society's morals becoming much more lax in recent decades, but also because the justice system started punishing these crimes as harshly as other similar crimes.

    So again, while religion does play a part, it's not the sole reason these men do what they do. The problem with the Muslim world is that some clerics approve of these barbaric acts and even encourage the men to commit them. But that only reinforces something that was already present in those societies. The idea that women are possessions and that they must be kept pure at all costs. Even death.

    I have no doubt that even if the Imams were to suddenly change their tune and start calling for the end of honor killings, these would still go on for another decade or two.

    According to the Christian tradition circumstances of a crime are always considered by all courts in civilized countries. Provided that this Muslim – if he is in those countries - commits the crime “of passion” or has anything else to soften jurors and judges he would be given the same sentence as others. Provided that the crime has been a part of his culture and he attempts to pursue these parts of his culture in other countries and the crime had be premeditated, no reasonable judge would allow to treat a premeditated crime as a ‘’crime of passion”.
    It depends on which country. Spain doesn't easily forgive "crimes of passion" anymore. There are very few extenuating circumstances a defense lawyer could use to get his client off. The level of violent crimes committed against women by their partners has become such a national epidemic, there is very little a man could claim in his defense and expect to have his sentence reduced. Very little.

    Also, there was a time when even with proven premeditation the men got off easy by claiming temporary insanity. Domestic violence has always been a very tricky field when it comes to punishing the perpetrators.

    THIS IS EXACTLY HAS BEEN THE MAIN POINT OF SGTROCK OR MYSLELF OR ANY OTHER REASONABLE PERSON.
    Well, I guess I'm glad we agree on something.

    As if there would be killing of blacks by white supremacists for being blacks people not only ring all bells in each and every case but people also must condemn the teaching and ideology and clubs of white supremacists not allowing any spread the ideology in our society. As if there is Pastor Wright people not only should ring all the bells for each and every case but we should condemn the very idea and teachings and the club where black Christians are announced to be special or different from whites, - in the same way people should ring all bells in all cases of Muslim killings and condemn the teachings and ideology which leads to it and people should stand against its spread in our society, as people should stand against white supremacists or black pastor Wrights. Of course the spread of Muslim traditions is more troubling than the old sores today…Of course I am speaking about people who have honor and moral standings. People who allow excuses and spins for either kind of cannibals are not different from cannibals themselves. And they keep on coming here on DP, one after another…
    Okay, I'm very sorry, but I'm not exactly sure what you're trying to express here. I realize that English is obviously not your first language, but I'm afraid I can't make heads or tails of this. I think you're trying to say that bigotry, racism and senseless violence should be fought on all fronts. Is that correct? If it is, then I have no argument with you on that. What I refuse to do is demonize an entire group of people for the actions of a few. In the same way that I've never demonized all Calabresi or Sicilians for what some of them have done, I will not demonize all Muslims for what some of them think they're justified in doing. This is my main problem with Sgt Rock's posts. The way he presents these stories is not helping to fight violence against women, it's just adding more fuel to the anti-Muslim fire. There are ways to point out an endemic problem in a specific community without resorting to the sort of sensationalist tactics he resorts to.
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    Re: Orchard Park businessman charged in beheading of wife

    Can we please get bak to the subject of this thread.

    Apparently, Mr. Muzzammil Hassan attorney has said, "He's having difficulty coping with this," the lawyer said. Well I for one have no sympathy for Mr. Hassan. Not only did he behead his wife (according to his own confession) but his wife Aasiya Hassan had filed for a divorce because Mr Hassasn was beating her. He is a POS and I hope he rots in hell.

    Imam Mohamed Hagmagid Ali of the Islamic Society of North America issued a statement. "Women who seek divorce from their spouses because of physical abuse should get full support from the community and should not be viewed as someone who has brought shame to herself or her family,"

    Really, shouldn't that be a given. Apparently not. Well its good that this Iman is explaining to the muslim community that there is no shame in a battered wife seeking a divorce.


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    Re: Orchard Park businessman charged in beheading of wife

    Quote Originally Posted by SgtRock View Post
    Can we please get bak to the subject of this thread.

    Apparently, Mr. Muzzammil Hassan attorney has said, "He's having difficulty coping with this," the lawyer said. Well I for one have no sympathy for Mr. Hassan. Not only did he behead his wife (according to his own confession) but his wife Aasiya Hassan had filed for a divorce because Mr Hassasn was beating her. He is a POS and I hope he rots in hell.
    I pity him. There is obviously something mentally wrong with him if he feels that beheading his wife is an acceptable act.

    Imam Mohamed Hagmagid Ali of the Islamic Society of North America issued a statement. "Women who seek divorce from their spouses because of physical abuse should get full support from the community and should not be viewed as someone who has brought shame to herself or her family,"

    Really, shouldn't that be a given. Apparently not. Well its good that this Iman is explaining to the muslim community that there is no shame in a battered wife seeking a divorce.
    I could have swore you were one of the people claiming that Islam condones violence and the Imams were crazy jihadists...
    "An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it." - Gandhi

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    Re: Orchard Park businessman charged in beheading of wife

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcana XV View Post
    I fail to see what your example has to do with hate crimes. But, fine, I'll play along. Yes, the end result is exactly the same if both were acts of murder. Unless you're going to sit there and pretend that every single time a cop kills a criminal he is completely justified in doing so. Murder is murder no matter who commits it and for what reason. Sometimes cops have to kill, very often in self-defense or in defense of others. That is not murder. However, if there is no immediate threat and the cop shoots to kill he will be prosecuted.
    I fail to see what hate crimes have to do with beheading and murdering wives, sisters and daughters or sons. But, fine, I'll play along. If cops keep on killing in a certain pattern, the cause and roots are investigated. If it found that they belong to certain club, mafia, - the mafia gets persecuted, clubs are closed, measures are taken to prevent repetition of the same. The investigations points to the club of Islam.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcana XV View Post
    My point was not to equate Muslims and Catholics, but to equate the machista societies of Southern Europe and South America and the equally machista societies of the Muslim world. In the same way that I've never demonized all Calabresi or Sicilians for what some of them have done, I will not demonize all Muslims for what some of them think they're justified in doing.
    Should I quote you? You said: “Just as they were a big problem in some parts of the Catholic world (mainly Southern Italy and parts of South America).”
    This is exactly equating, - what is factually going on in the huge Muslim society including Muslim societies in the non-rural US and Europe united by the same teachings and moral is the same as what is hypothetically going in a few little and isolated group or tribes. Muslims are is not anything like that. They are not even mafia.
    Quote Originally Posted by Arcana XV View Post
    As many have already stated, the problem is not the religion, it's the approval of society at large. The religion doesn't matter when it comes to matters of family honor. I'm Italian, I know all about family honor and what it used to mean, and still means in remote parts of Calabria and Sicily. Fathers, brothers, cousins killed daughters, sisters and cousins for pretty much the same reasons Muslim men kill their women. Family honor. It's not about religion, it's about tribal traditions, patriarchy and the belief that women are either saintly virgins to be revered or cheap whores deserving only death. Catholics are taught to value a woman's virginity above all else. Keeping women honest in Southern Italy was, and often still is, a matter of family honor. The religious issue got so blurred with the societal dictates, it's very difficult to tell which came first. Either way, these crimes are thankfully becoming more and more rare, not just due to society's morals becoming much more lax in recent decades, but also because the justice system started punishing these crimes as harshly as other similar crimes.
    I already answered:
    Quote Originally Posted by justone
    It would be a matter of honor to provide some references that would allow to equate problems of the Catholic world with problems of the Muslim world and to prove the same wide approval or indifference of the Catholic Clergy as we observe in Muslim clergy, - as well as to equate laws and actions of authorities of Italy and South America with laws and actions of Muslim authorities in Muslim countries. It is like SgtRocks has honor to provides references that may be cross checked. http://www.debatepolitics.com/breaki...-violence.html (Muslim women 'face crisis over violence')

    But it has been proven so many times that posters who bring Christians and catholics into any post where Muslims are discussed and who go into an endless spin trying to equate teachings, traditions, history and actions of Christians with teachings, traditions, history and actions of Muslims, who cast a blame on the West and the US for Jihad, - that these individuals do not have any idea or feeling of honor and morality.

    People who try to impose that it is not Islam but tribal culture of some unnamed and hypothetical tribes do not make a little of sense, because it has been pointed many times that this culture of Islam blossoms not only in unnamed and hypothetical rural tribal areas, but right here in the US, and in Europe and everywhere where there are societies of Muslims.

    You have no links, nothing to confirm your statements.

    A friend of mine is a Sicilian, an owner of a very popular restaurant in my town (speaking even worse English than I do), once in a while invites me to a family party, where at least 1/2 of guests speak Italian between themselves, - they wouldn’t even behead YOU however hard and loud their honor would call them if they could hear your statements.



    Quote Originally Posted by Arcana XV View Post
    So again, while religion does play a part, it's not the sole reason these men do what they do.
    So how big is the part? What is the sole reason of them doing the same under the same pretence of following their religion?


    Quote Originally Posted by Arcana XV View Post
    The problem with the Muslim world is that some clerics approve of these barbaric acts and even encourage the men to commit them. But that only reinforces something that was already present in those societies. The idea that women are possessions and that they must be kept pure at all costs. Even death.

    I have no doubt that even if the Imams were to suddenly change their tune and start calling for the end of honor killings, these would still go on for another decade or two.
    Shoooo, I don’t really get emotional typing, but you’re making me. Exactly. What else has been ever stated, pointed to, tipped, voiced on this and many other treads? How difficult is it to get? What are all the dances around and endless spins? If Imams had to suddenly changed their tune and start calling for the end of honor killings decade or two ago we would have seen such stories as an exclusion from the rule. If Imams had to suddenly changed their tune and start calling for the end of honor killings a century ago we would not be making any connection between such stories and Islam.


    This is exactly what I am looking at – at the clergy and Imamas, at the very roots, the cause, which if changed would change the effect - that’s why I went to Islamic sides in my investigation of Mohammed’s pedophilia. And I’ve found clerics either do not mind or approve of these barbaric acts and even encourage the men to commit them, - everywhere I’ve looked. They are not changing their tune. Why? Why? Why do they sing the same tune – even here in the US – have you ever checked Islamonline? Why? Have you ever noticed that “the founder of a Muslim TV channel has been arrested in his wife’s brutal slaying”?
    Why, - not in isolated rural cases, not in a tribal life, - but in the midst of civilized Europe and the US, on Internet by all means of civilization? Who does knows Quaran better - you, I or Imams?



    Quote Originally Posted by Arcana XV View Post
    I think you're trying to say that bigotry, racism and senseless violence should be fought on all fronts. Is that correct? If it is, then I have no argument with you on that. What I refuse to do is demonize an entire group of people for the actions of a few. In the same way that I've never demonized all Calabresi or Sicilians for what some of them have done, I will not demonize all Muslims for what some of them think they're justified in doing.



    This is my main problem with Sgt Rock's posts. The way he presents these stories is not helping to fight violence against women, it's just adding more fuel to the anti-Muslim fire. There are ways to point out an endemic problem in a specific community without resorting to the sort of sensationalist tactics he resorts to. You got that right - any time the media decides to be hush hush on any matter is not good for America, no matter what anyone thinks of Muslims.
    http://www.debatepolitics.com/breaki...post1057930139
    Quote Originally Posted by azura28 View Post
    I think you know the answer to that question.

    S-s-s-s-h.

    The irony of this story is unmistakable and everyone knows it.

    Stating facts about Islam or anything else does not mean demonizing Islam or anything else.

    People who try to impose that it is not Islam but tribal culture of some unnamed and hypothetical tribes do not make a little of sense, because it has been pointed many times that this culture of Islam blossoms not only in unnamed and hypothetical rural tribal areas, but right here in the US, and in Europe and everywhere where there are societies of Muslims.


    If Sgt Rock is wrong in his facts, logic or conclusion then go ahead, submit your facts, logic and conclusion. When you say :
    Quote Originally Posted by Arcana XV View Post
    The problem with the Muslim world is that some clerics approve of these barbaric acts and even encourage the men to commit them. But that only reinforces something that was already present in those societies. The idea that women are possessions and that they must be kept pure at all costs. Even death.

    I have no doubt that even if the Imams were to suddenly change their tune and start calling for the end of honor killings, these would still go on for another decade or two [and then end].
    You got that right - any time the media decides to be hush hush on any matter is not good for America, no matter what anyone thinks of Muslims.
    You exactly confirm the facts, logic and conclusions of Sgt Rock. Whatever is the flame or water you or him use to dilute your posts you come to the same bottom line. The only difference is that you add the word some in front of the word clergy, when you have no justification for doing it. I have spent some time going through Islamic sites in English and auto translation from Arabic, and I linked to those sites.
    http://www.debatepolitics.com/religi...post1057926865

    Your ‘’some’ has no justification in facts and reality. The correct statement would be that some clergy is in disagreement and disapprove… if to grant that they are sincere on public..
    Last edited by justone; 02-19-09 at 07:15 PM.

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    Re: Orchard Park businessman charged in beheading of wife

    Quote Originally Posted by justone View Post
    I fail to see what hate crimes have to do with beheading and murdering wives, sisters and daughters or sons. But, fine, I'll play along. If cops keep on killing in a certain pattern, the cause and roots are investigated. If it found that they belong to certain club, mafia, - the mafia gets persecuted, clubs are closed, measures are taken to prevent repetition of the same. The investigations points to the club of Islam.
    Fair enough. But you forgot Sikhs and Hindus. Honor killings are not just a Muslim problem.


    Should I quote you? You said: “Just as they were a big problem in some parts of the Catholic world (mainly Southern Italy and parts of South America).”
    This is exactly equating, - what is factually going on in the huge Muslim society including Muslim societies in the non-rural US and Europe united by the same teachings and moral is the same as what is hypothetically going in a few little and isolated group or tribes. Muslims are is not anything like that. They are not even mafia.

    I already answered:


    You have no links, nothing to confirm your statements.

    A friend of mine is a Sicilian, an owner of a very popular restaurant in my town (speaking even worse English than I do), once in a while invites me to a family party, where at least 1/2 of guests speak Italian between themselves, - they wouldn’t even behead YOU however hard and loud their honor would call them if they could hear your statements.
    I wasn't talking about the mafia, justone. That is a completely separate problem. Honor crimes in Italy were committed by average people. Please, go ask your Sicilian friend to look you straight in the eye and tell you that such crimes never happened in our country. I dare him to look straight into your face and lie his ass off.

    Of course they wouldn't behead anyone. None of my Italian family members would either. Just like the majority of Muslim men would never hurt their women. That doesn't change the fact that Italian fathers, brothers and cousins have killed their family members in the name of family honor.

    So how big is the part? What is the sole reason of them doing the same under the same pretence of following their religion?
    There isn't a sole reason. It's a cultural revolting practice in some parts of the Muslim world. Religion is the excuse, not the catalyst.

    Shoooo, I don’t really get emotional typing, but you’re making me. Exactly. What else has been ever stated, pointed to, tipped, voiced on this and many other treads? How difficult is it to get? What are all the dances around and endless spins? If Imams had to suddenly changed their tune and start calling for the end of honor killings decade or two ago we would have seen such stories as an exclusion from the rule. If Imams had to suddenly changed their tune and start calling for the end of honor killings a century ago we would not be making any connection between such stories and Islam.


    This is exactly what I am looking at – at the clergy and Imamas, at the very roots, the cause, which if changed would change the effect - that’s why I went to Islamic sides in my investigation of Mohammed’s pedophilia. And I’ve found clerics either do not mind or approve of these barbaric acts and even encourage the men to commit them, - everywhere I’ve looked. They are not changing their tune. Why? Why? Why do they sing the same tune – even here in the US – have you ever checked Islamonline? Why? Have you ever noticed that “the founder of a Muslim TV channel has been arrested in his wife’s brutal slaying”?
    Why, - not in isolated rural cases, not in a tribal life, - but in the midst of civilized Europe and the US, on Internet by all means of civilization? Who does knows Quaran better - you, I or Imams?
    Even in the midst of civilized Europe and the US tribal traditions live on and you know it. If you indeed have studied the problem as extensively as you say you have, then you must have noticed that most of these crimes are committed by people who come from specific parts of the Muslim world, yes? How many times do you hear about such crimes being committed by Indonesians, or sub-Saharan African Muslims? It's practically unheard of in those parts of the Muslim world.



    http://www.debatepolitics.com/breaki...post1057930139


    Stating facts about Islam or anything else does not mean demonizing Islam or anything else.

    People who try to impose that it is not Islam but tribal culture of some unnamed and hypothetical tribes do not make a little of sense, because it has been pointed many times that this culture of Islam blossoms not only in unnamed and hypothetical rural tribal areas, but right here in the US, and in Europe and everywhere where there are societies of Muslims.


    If Sgt Rock is wrong in his facts, logic or conclusion then go ahead, submit your facts, logic and conclusion. When you say :


    You exactly confirm the facts, logic and conclusions of Sgt Rock. Whatever is the flame or water you or him use to dilute your posts you come to the same bottom line. The only difference is that you add the word some in front of the word clergy, when you have no justification for doing it. I have spent some time going through Islamic sites in English and auto translation from Arabic, and I linked to those sites.
    http://www.debatepolitics.com/religi...post1057926865

    Your ‘’some’ has no justification in facts and reality. The correct statement would be that some clergy is in disagreement and disapprove… if to grant that they are sincere on public..
    I've never once disagreed with SgtRock's or your statements that honor killings are a problem in Muslim society. What I refuse to do is to color the entire Muslim world community with the same broad brush. The Muslim world is very big, yet, (and again you must know this if you have really looked at the issue as seriously as you say you have) honor killings are most prominently practiced by Arabs, Kurds, Pakistanis, Afghans and Turks. You've gotta wonder why that is...
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    Re: Orchard Park businessman charged in beheading of wife

    UPDATE

    Moderate Muslim who beheaded his wife says he is the real victim.
    This would be laughable if it didn't involve a woman without a head. In any case, it is a classic example of the essentially universal tendency on the part of Islamic supemacists and jihadists to blame everyone but themselves for what they have done. In a larger sense, this is exactly like the jihadis blaming American foreign policy for the global jihad, and is related to the campaign to get the West to "stop linking Islam with terrorism": Islamic jihadists link Islam with terrorism with consistency and religious fervor, but if a Western non-Muslim notices this, he is "hateful," "bigoted," "Islamophobic," "ignorant of Islam," etc. Never would the Muslims who accuse non-Muslims of "hate" for "linking Islam with terrorism" ever look to themselves, see the responsibility for the link as being within the Muslim community rather than outside it, and challenge those jihadists instead.
    Muzzammil "Mo" Hassan is claiming that he was the victim.Contrary to the pile of evidence and witness corroboration that he mentally tormented and physically beat his wife over a period of years, he said, the truth is that he was the one “emotionally tortured” by his outwardly kind and sweet-natured wife, Aasiya Zubair Hassan.
    "It, to me, sounds like a desperate attempt by a person who does not have a credible defense," said Suzanne Tomkins, the clinical professor at the University at Buffalo Law School who runs a domestic violence law clinic.

    This POS will burn in hell for what he has done. How dare he claim that he is the victim. Mr Hassan is an other muslim man in a long line of abusers who treat women worse than live stock. Its a shame New Yorks Death Penalty was declared unconstitutional in 2004 because Mo needs to die.


    Hassan says he's the victim : Southern Suburbs : The Buffalo News
    Last edited by SgtRock; 07-18-10 at 01:37 PM.
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    Re: Orchard Park businessman charged in beheading of wife

    I believe, Islam is a clear and present danger to the security of the United States and is incompatible with our Constitution and our values. It should be outlawed within the borders of the United States, its territories and possessions.

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    Re: Orchard Park businessman charged in beheading of wife

    Quote Originally Posted by ric27 View Post
    I believe, Islam is a clear and present danger to the security of the United States and is incompatible with our Constitution and our values. It should be outlawed within the borders of the United States, its territories and possessions.
    It's a good thing that you and other Muslim haters are not in a position of power to bring your dreams of Muslim hatred to fruition.

    Sad that people full of hatred such as yourself exists in this day and age.

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    Re: Orchard Park businessman charged in beheading of wife

    Quote Originally Posted by ric27 View Post
    I believe, Islam is a clear and present danger to the security of the United States and is incompatible with our Constitution and our values. It should be outlawed within the borders of the United States, its territories and possessions.
    I knew a woman who legally immigrated from across the Atlantic with her daughter. They got jobs, payed taxes, and lived amongst Americans as American citizens. They loved children and gave out free candy to the kids. The mother would also babysit children in the neighborhood. They immigrated like our ancestors did, they got jobs and became legal citizens like our ancestors did. They pay taxes like we do, and neither of them preformed acts of terror or denounced our nation. These two women were Muslims who immigrated here from Iran. Islam as a religion is not against our constitution. I know some very fine Muslim individuals and they are living the American dream just like we are. I go to a Christian affiliated university and we even have a fair number of Muslim students who are coming to be educated so they can get jobs like the rest of us. Islam is not a danger, nor is it anti-American. You couldn't be more wrong.
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