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Thread: Orchard Park businessman charged in beheading of wife

  1. #341
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    Re: Orchard Park businessman charged in beheading of wife

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcana XV View Post
    I am a Swiss/Canadian/Spanish/Italian atheist. Why?
    I was just wondering. Not trying to box you in, but your arguments in defense of the Swiss Muslim community as a whole led me to believe that you may just be Muslim in faith.

    j-mac
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  2. #342
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    Re: Orchard Park businessman charged in beheading of wife

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    I was just wondering. Not trying to box you in, but your arguments in defense of the Swiss Muslim community as a whole led me to believe that you may just be Muslim in faith.

    j-mac
    Nah. I despise organized religion like you wouldn't believe. I just despise unjust generalizations even more. That, and I have a lot of friends from Kosovo.
    Last edited by Arcana XV; 07-29-10 at 01:02 PM.
    "Yes, but are you a Protestant atheist or a Catholic atheist?".- Northern Irish joke

  3. #343
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    Re: Orchard Park businessman charged in beheading of wife

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcana XV View Post
    Nah. I despise organized religion like you wouldn't believe. I just despise unjust generalizations even more. That, and I have a lot of friends from Kosovo.

    Ok, that is interesting....Do your friends from Kosovo recognize the help we offered them?


    j-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

  4. #344
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    Re: Orchard Park businessman charged in beheading of wife

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Ok, that is interesting....Do your friends from Kosovo recognize the help we offered them?


    j-mac
    You mean the US? They don't really like to talk about the war much. They are very grateful for Switzerland's hopitality, though.
    "Yes, but are you a Protestant atheist or a Catholic atheist?".- Northern Irish joke

  5. #345
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    Re: Orchard Park businessman charged in beheading of wife

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcana XV View Post
    Bullcrap. Explain the existence of secular governments in majority Muslim countries. Explain Turkey, Syria, Lebanon, Indonesia, Malaysia etc... The Muslim world is as diverse and complex as the rest of the world is.
    I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but if you've done much reading about Islam, you would know that there is no differece between secular and religious life. Every aspect of life is governed by Islam. There is no beginning and end of it's application to one's life. Islam is all encompassing. So, you have your believers and non-believers. Non-believers fall into several catagories of tollerance.

    And wasn't Indonesia in the process of removing constitutional protections from non-Muslims and moving to uniform application of shaira law? If I remember correctly (some time ago), the managing editor of the Indonesian "Playboy" magazine franchise was arrested and the last Playmate posed dressed rather than nude.

    And that touchy feel good sentiment PC bull**** (separation of the secular and religious authority) does not exist in Islam.

    In Islam jurisprudence (all five major Sunni versions, as well as Shi'ia) the secular and religious authority are the same. Islam is a theocracy in every sense. Since the last Caliphate (the Ottoman Empire) ended in 1919, the rise of secular governments in Islamic countries is a "modern" phenomena.

    Those governments, increasingly, are secular in name only. Even Jordan (a "moderate" "democratic" Arab country) makes Islam its state religion. Jordan punishes apostasy (leaving Islam); blasphemy; non-Muslim prostelyzing; etc. with shaira punishments.

  6. #346
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    Re: Orchard Park businessman charged in beheading of wife

    Quote Originally Posted by ric27 View Post
    I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but if you've done much reading about Islam, you would know that there is no differece between secular and religious life. Every aspect of life is governed by Islam. There is no beginning and end of it's application to one's life. Islam is all encompassing. So, you have your believers and non-believers. Non-believers fall into several catagories of tollerance.
    I understand that. It's the reason why most of the countries I mentioned usually have both Sharia and secular courts. The latter handle criminal matters, while the former deal with civil cases. Only a couple of Muslim countries are actual theocracies that strictly and systematically enforce every single aspect of Sharia law. All other countries pick and choose which parts of Sharia law to use and either disregard or even outlaw some other parts. Hadd offenses in most Middle Eastern countries very rarely carry the penalty set in the Koran.

    And wasn't Indonesia in the process of removing constitutional protections from non-Muslims and moving to uniform application of shaira law?
    I'd like to see proof of that please. Not saying I don't believe you, I just haven't been able to find anything that corroborates your statement.

    If I remember correctly (some time ago), the managing editor of the Indonesian "Playboy" magazine franchise was arrested and the last Playmate posed dressed rather than nude.
    That sounds familiar, although I don't think anyone was arrested at all. You forgot to mention that Indonesia is one of the few Muslim countries where magazines like Playboy are not banned. I will give you that the Indonesian version is much more conservative than the regular one. This in and of itself means very little, seeing as many non-Muslim countries ban these sort of magazines. Even Japan prohibits the regular version and has its own watered down version due to their indecency laws.

    And that touchy feel good sentiment PC bull**** (separation of the secular and religious authority) does not exist in Islam.

    In Islam jurisprudence (all five major Sunni versions, as well as Shi'ia) the secular and religious authority are the same. Islam is a theocracy in every sense. Since the last Caliphate (the Ottoman Empire) ended in 1919, the rise of secular governments in Islamic countries is a "modern" phenomena.
    Well, I'm glad to see you at least admit that there are secular governments in Muslim countries.

    Those governments, increasingly, are secular in name only. Even Jordan (a "moderate" "democratic" Arab country) makes Islam its state religion. Jordan punishes apostasy (leaving Islam); blasphemy; non-Muslim prostelyzing; etc. with shaira punishments.

    I disagree. I see progress being made every day. Do they still have a ways to go? Absolutely, they do. But I see many encouraging signs for democracy and gender equality in all the countries I mentioned. Malaysia just appointed two women to their religious courts. Pakistan, Morocco, Lebanon, Indonesia and the West Bank have had women judges sit in these courts for quite a while now. Syria just banned the burka, fer chrissakes.

    Why are you so willing to only focus on what still needs improvement and to completely disregard the progress that is being made every day? I find this sort of tunnel vision quite limiting.

    Oh, and apostasy is rarely punished in Jordan, although it is still illegal. As for the sharia punishments doled out, in Jordan as well as other moderate countries, they are extremely minor compared to what happens in the real theocracies of Iran and Saudi Arabia.
    "Yes, but are you a Protestant atheist or a Catholic atheist?".- Northern Irish joke

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