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Thread: Orchard Park businessman charged in beheading of wife

  1. #291
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    Re: Orchard Park businessman charged in beheading of wife

    Quote Originally Posted by ric27 View Post
    Read on

    Qur'an 3:28


    Let not believers take disbelievers as allies rather than believers. And whoever [of you] does that has nothing with Allah , except when taking precaution against them in prudence. And Allah warns you of Himself, and to Allah is the [final] destination.



    When Muslims are outnumbered by a stronger adversary like the US for instance, believers (Muslims) are allowed to show friendship outwardly but NEVER inwardly

    So, basically when Muslims are outnumbered they are supposed to have two faces. Inwardly, they hate the unbelievers and long for the day Islam will dominate and outwardly, Muslims are allowed to pretend to be peaceful, tolerant, loving and kind

    Bottom line - Smiling in our faces while cursing us in their hearts
    How dare you make such an offensive and blatantly wrong generalization. My Muslim babysitter didn't hate me in her heart. My friend I had in lab doesn't hate me in her heart, and neither did my Muslim friend who offered to train me hate me in his heart. Are you seriously saying that all Muslims are commanded to be 2 faced and secretly hate all non-Muslims in their hearts? I have a Muslim friend who believes in her faith that non Muslims can go to heaven, and she personally told me that according to her faith that she believes I would be going there.

    I see no where in that Quran passage that says to lie and deceive. I see it saying to not ally with disbelievers. Even the Bible says to not be unequally yolked and to be weary of those who may lead us astray.
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  2. #292
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    Re: Orchard Park businessman charged in beheading of wife

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    How dare you make such an offensive and blatantly wrong generalization. My Muslim babysitter didn't hate me in her heart. My friend I had in lab doesn't hate me in her heart, and neither did my Muslim friend who offered to train me hate me in his heart. Are you seriously saying that all Muslims are commanded to be 2 faced and secretly hate all non-Muslims in their hearts? I have a Muslim friend who believes in her faith that non Muslims can go to heaven, and she personally told me that according to her faith that she believes I would be going there.

    I see no where in that Quran passage that says to lie and deceive. I see it saying to not ally with disbelievers. Even the Bible says to not be unequally yolked and to be weary of those who may lead us astray.
    Digsbe, there are some people in here that just truly hate Islam and want to paint all muslims with the same Brush. It's truly sad but you're not gonna convince them of anything.

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    Re: Orchard Park businessman charged in beheading of wife

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Ferris View Post
    You're right of course
    I know this. I am a Muslim who knows about Islam. You are a non-Muslim who's knowledge of Islam is laughable.
    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Ferris View Post
    there is no such thing as the Ulama, there is no such thing as Fiqh, and there is no such thing as Ijma.
    How does that substantiate your claim that there is a head of a mosque? The Ulema are those who have become Islamic scholars. Ijma is what those scholars agree on. Fiqh is Islamic jurisprudence. None of those have any authority over a Muslim. A Muslim is one who submits to God.
    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Ferris View Post
    Anyone of them that does not advocate against the five main schools of Islamic Fiqh and the Ijma of the Ulama.
    Now it's obvious you have no idea what you are talking about. It's obvious you never even stepped foot in a mosque.

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Ferris View Post
    No sir I do not, all five mainstream sects of Islam believe that apostasy, homosexuality, and adultery are capital offenses and that premarital sex is punished through 100 lashes. That is current Islamic dogma and the only accepted interpretation today within mainstream Islam.
    So when the Qur'an says "Let there be no compulsion in religion", those that believe apostates should be punished are going against the word of God. They will answer for their own actions.

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    Re: Orchard Park businessman charged in beheading of wife

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Ferris View Post
    Ya because the human species changed so much in the last 30 years. That is like saying that the typology of a serial killer actually changes with time.
    A study done four decades ago has no bearing on today's society. Or did you forget that society changes?


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    Re: Orchard Park businessman charged in beheading of wife

    Quote Originally Posted by Degreez View Post
    I know this. I am a Muslim who knows about Islam. You are a non-Muslim who's knowledge of Islam is laughable.

    How does that substantiate your claim that there is a head of a mosque? The Ulema are those who have become Islamic scholars. Ijma is what those scholars agree on. Fiqh is Islamic jurisprudence. None of those have any authority over a Muslim. A Muslim is one who submits to God.
    All five schools of Islamic law and the Islamic leadership councils who set that law don't have authority over Muslims? What are you kidding me? Ya and the Pope and canon law doesn't have authority over Catholics. You guys are just freaking funny it's scary. Literally.

    Now it's obvious you have no idea what you are talking about. It's obvious you never even stepped foot in a mosque.
    Yep Imam's don't follow the Islamic Law set by the Ulama.

    So when the Qur'an says "Let there be no compulsion in religion", those that believe apostates should be punished are going against the word of God. They will answer for their own actions.
    And the Qu'ran likewise says: "They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them", and: "But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then are they your brethren in religion. We detail Our revelations for a people who have knowledge. And if they break their pledges after their treaty (hath been made with you) and assail your religion, then fight the heads of disbelief - Lo! they have no binding oaths - in order that they may desist." and numerous passages from the Hadiths likewise say to kill them and death for apostasy is the interpretation in every single school of Islamic Fiqh set by the Ulama through Ijma.

    So it's nice that you don't believe in death for apostasy but that is no way reflective of the view held within mainstream Islam. Death for apostates is the ONLY accepted interpretation in ANY of the main sects of Islam.

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    Re: Orchard Park businessman charged in beheading of wife

    Quote Originally Posted by Degreez View Post
    A study done four decades ago has no bearing on today's society. Or did you forget that society changes?

    Yes you are completely right, criminal typology changes through time. Genius.

    Anyways how does 2004 suit you?

    Sageman (2004) 102 Salafi Muslim terrorists
    from Saudi Arabia, Egypt,
    France, Algeria, Morocco,
    and Indonesia

    25.69 (avg.
    age of
    joining)

    18 percent upper class, 55 percent
    middle class, and 27 percent
    lower class

    Sageman, M. 2004. Understanding terror networks. Philadelphia: University of Pennsylvania Press.


    http://books.google.com/books?id=SAQ...page&q&f=false
    Last edited by Agent Ferris; 07-20-10 at 09:40 AM.

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    Re: Orchard Park businessman charged in beheading of wife

    Quote Originally Posted by Degreez View Post

    So when the Qur'an says "Let there be no compulsion in religion", those that believe apostates should be punished are going against the word of God. They will answer for their own actions.
    And the Qu'ran likewise says: "They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them", and numerous passages from the Hadiths likewise say to kill them and death for apostasy is the interpretation in every single school of Islamic Fiqh set by the Ulama through Ijma. And I'm not here to get into a debate about your interpretation of the Qu'ran or Islam, what is important and all that matters is the interpretation of Islam by the Ulama. So it's nice that you don't believe in death for apostasy but that is no way reflective of the view held within mainstream Islam. Death for apostates is the ONLY accepted interpretation in ANY of the main sects of Islam. You can say you don't believe that all you want but you do not set Islamic Law or Islamic Ulama, the majority within the Ulama sets Fiqh through Ijma and the current Ijma in ALL FIVE schools of Islamic Fiqh is that apostasy is to be punished by death, there is no other accepted interpretation.

  8. #298
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    Re: Orchard Park businessman charged in beheading of wife

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Ferris View Post
    I would expect her not to go to a Mosque headed by someone who considers himself a part of one of the five major Islamic sects. Do Christians who don't believe in organized religion go to church? No. If she says that doesn't support these things then why does she go to a mainstream Mosque?
    Probably for the same reason that pro-gay marriage and pro-abortion Catholics still go to church regularly. You don't have to agree with all the silly man-made rules to feel you belong in a particular faith. There are millions of Muslims who, like Laila, would never dream of enforcing the apostasy, adultery, etc.. laws and who still attend Mosque and pray every day.
    "Yes, but are you a Protestant atheist or a Catholic atheist?".- Northern Irish joke

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    Re: Orchard Park businessman charged in beheading of wife

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    How dare you make such an offensive and blatantly wrong generalization. My Muslim babysitter didn't hate me in her heart. My friend I had in lab doesn't hate me in her heart, and neither did my Muslim friend who offered to train me hate me in his heart. Are you seriously saying that all Muslims are commanded to be 2 faced and secretly hate all non-Muslims in their hearts? I have a Muslim friend who believes in her faith that non Muslims can go to heaven, and she personally told me that according to her faith that she believes I would be going there.

    I see no where in that Quran passage that says to lie and deceive. I see it saying to not ally with disbelievers. Even the Bible says to not be unequally yolked and to be weary of those who may lead us astray.
    I think the problem we see here is a lack of familiarity with average Muslims and an exaggerated focus on what he perceives to be centralized Muslim dogma. He seems to honestly believe that every single Muslim in the world is influenced by the elite scholars and he seems to believe that this elite is centralized and actually agrees on everything, when the truth is there are such scholars in every country/region who don't necessarily talk to the elite in other regions. Furthermore, this elite has very limited power and influence, except in places where it's actually seized political power such as is the case in Iran.
    "Yes, but are you a Protestant atheist or a Catholic atheist?".- Northern Irish joke

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    Re: Orchard Park businessman charged in beheading of wife

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcana XV View Post
    Probably for the same reason that pro-gay marriage and pro-abortion Catholics still go to church regularly. You don't have to agree with all the silly man-made rules to feel you belong in a particular faith. There are millions of Muslims who, like Laila, would never dream of enforcing the apostasy, adultery, etc.. laws and who still attend Mosque and pray every day.
    If you actually advocate abortion publically you do run the risk of excommunication. And if you're pro-abortion and pro-gay rights why would you go to a church and put money in a collection plate to support an organization that you don't agree with?

    Anyways to say that anti-abortion and anti-gay marriage isn't a hallmark of the Catholic Church is like saying that death for apostasy, sodomy, and adultery aren't hallmarks of Islam. Yes not all Muslims believe such things but Islam itself supports those things.
    Last edited by Agent Ferris; 07-20-10 at 10:36 AM.

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