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Thread: War against Taliban 'will be lost by autumn' unless strategy changes

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    Re: War against Taliban 'will be lost by autumn' unless strategy changes

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    Of course we did - Operation Ajax, which is why Iran is now a fundie Islamist state.
    Operation Ajax has NOTHING to do with why Iran is now a fundamentalist State and I would be happy to refute any of your convoluted history should you wish to support your statements by using some of it.

    So by all means, show me how operation Ajax had anything to do with Iran’s current state.

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    Re: War against Taliban 'will be lost by autumn' unless strategy changes

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Detector View Post
    it's so much easier to wallow in historic ignorance
    I found this statement both ironic and hilarious. Along with your little appeal to emotion "American bashing" yeah right. Like anyone taking a subjective view of American action and critiquing it is "bashing America". Just more non-intellectual, knee jerk BS spouted off by people wishing nothing more than to dismiss a statement. The West in general has been monkeying in the area for a long long time. Those anti-American sentiments didn't just sprout up one day because the collective people of the Middle East woke up one morning and said, "You know what? I think I hate America". There are reasons for these things and if you want to look at the cumulative actions of the West and other industrialized nations in the area for the past 50 years, it may become clear as to why we are suffering from blowback.

    But that's only if you want to discuss the issue honestly and openly instead of resorting to emotional tripe like "America bashing".
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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    Re: War against Taliban 'will be lost by autumn' unless strategy changes

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Detector View Post
    Operation Ajax has NOTHING to do with why Iran is now a fundamentalist State and I would be happy to refute any of your convoluted history should you wish to support your statements by using some of it.

    So by all means, show me how operation Ajax had anything to do with Iran’s current state.
    That is easy:

    1) The Iranian people DEMOCRATICALLY elect Mossadegh to lead their nation.

    2) The CIA overthrows that government, and installs the Shah, who was so sadistic he even made Saddam look like a boy scout.

    3) Eventually, the American hating fundies overthrow the Shah.

    It's called blowback.
    The ghost of Jack Kevorkian for President's Physician: 2016

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    Re: War against Taliban 'will be lost by autumn' unless strategy changes

    I hope we are just letting them come out of the woodwork a little so we can better identify them, see which caves they use etc. and give them a more thorough smash!!! Especially if they are truely responsible for our New York, "Pearl Harbor" ..where all 7..WTC Buildings were lost that day!

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    Re: War against Taliban 'will be lost by autumn' unless strategy changes

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    That is easy:

    1) The Iranian people DEMOCRATICALLY elect Mossadegh to lead their nation.

    2) The CIA overthrows that government, and installs the Shah, who was so sadistic he even made Saddam look like a boy scout.

    3) Eventually, the American hating fundies overthrow the Shah.

    It's called blowback.
    FAIL.

    “The Iranian people DEMOCRATICALLY elect Mossadegh to lead their nation.”

    FALSE.

    The Iranian people did not democratically elect Mossadegh to anything, he was appointed by the Shah after the assassination of his predecessor. He also led a Communist faction which made many Shia’s afraid of his leadership.

    You need to review your warped history records dude; read and become more informed before you make such uninformed statements:

    “On 28 April 1951, the Majlis named Mosaddeq as new prime minister by a vote of 79–12. Aware of Mosaddeq’s rising popularity and political power, the young Shah appointed Mosaddeq to the Premiership.”

    Mohammed Mosaddeq - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    “CIA overthrows that government, and installs the Shah”

    FALSE.

    The military overthrew Mohammed after he showed his “Socialist” colors and nationalized the oil assets owned and developed by what is now BP. Again, the CIA’s role in this was merely support, propaganda and funding of opposition powers. The Iranian politics have always been extremely volatile not because of anything the Americans did, but due to internal and external EUROPEAN influences as well.

    The Shaw was always the Monarch and played a real political role in power.

    Events that led to the Shah removing Mossadegh:

    On 28 April 1951, the Majlis named Mosaddeq as new prime minister by a vote of 79–12. Aware of Mosaddeq’s rising popularity and political power, the young Shah appointed Mosaddeq to the Premiership.

    In August 1953, Mosaddeq attempted to convince the Shah to leave the country and allow him control over the government. The Shah refused, and formally dismissed the Prime Minister. Mosaddeq refused to leave, however, and when it became apparent that he was going to fight to overthrow the monarchy, the Shah, as a precautionary measure, flew to Baghdad and from there to Rome, Italy, after signing two decrees, one dismissing Mosaddeq and the other nominating General Fazlollah Zahedi Prime Minister.

    massive protests broke out across the nation. Anti- and pro-monarchy protesters violently clashed in the streets, leaving almost 300 dead. The pro-monarchy forces, led by retired army General and former Minister of Interior in Mosaddeq’s cabinet, Fazlollah Zahedi and pahlavan like Shaban Jafari,[37] gained the upper hand on 19 August 1953 (28 Mordad). The military intervened as the pro-Shah tank regiments stormed the capital and bombarded the prime minister’s official residence. Mosaddeq managed to flee from the mob that set in to ransack his house, and, the following day, surrendered to General Zahedi, who had meanwhile established his makeshift headquarters at the Officers' Club. Mosaddeq was arrested at the Officers' Club and transferred to a military jail shortly after.

    Shortly after the return of the Shah, on 22 August 1953, from the brief self-imposed exile in Rome, Mosaddeq was tried by a military tribunal for high treason. Zahedi and the Shah were inclined, however, to spare the man’s life (the death penalty would have applied according to the laws of the day). Mosaddeq received a sentence of 3 years in solitary confinement at a military jail and was exiled to his village not far from Tehran, where he remained under house arrest on his estate until his death, on 5 March 1967.[38]
    Zahedi’s new government soon reached an agreement with foreign oil companies to form a "Consortium" and "restore the flow of Iranian oil to world markets in substantial quantities."



    “who was so sadistic he even made Saddam look like a boy scout.”

    How trite, yet the sadistic murdering that occurred after the Shah’s reign was ended paled in comparison to that attributed to the Shah. I find it amusing that you wallow in the rhetoric of the terrorists and their supporters.

    The only thing more fascinating is your support to keep in power a more brutal thug in Saddam Hussein whom you think was removed illegally by the US led coalition.

    "Eventually, the American hating fundies overthrow the Shah."

    Wong; eventually the Western hating fundies who support and fund terrorists overthrew the Shah thanks to fecklessness of the Carter Administration who even allowed the overtaking of US soil through our embassy in Tehran and did nothing but act cowardly for the next 444 days our people were held hostage by a rogue regime who used rogue tactics.

    I suggest you take some history lessons before attempting to re-write them on this forum with your inane accounting of what occurred. You sound more like an Osama or Liberal mouthpiece than someone credible who has a historical knowledge of what went on.

    I think you have "blowback" on the brain. Blowback is a figment of terrorist propaganda which Liberals, and apparently you, swallow with little or no suspension of disbelief.

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    Re: War against Taliban 'will be lost by autumn' unless strategy changes

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    I found this statement both ironic and hilarious. Along with your little appeal to emotion "American bashing" yeah right. Like anyone taking a subjective view of American action and critiquing it is "bashing America". Just more non-intellectual, knee jerk BS spouted off by people wishing nothing more than to dismiss a statement. The West in general has been monkeying in the area for a long long time. Those anti-American sentiments didn't just sprout up one day because the collective people of the Middle East woke up one morning and said, "You know what? I think I hate America". There are reasons for these things and if you want to look at the cumulative actions of the West and other industrialized nations in the area for the past 50 years, it may become clear as to why we are suffering from blowback.

    But that's only if you want to discuss the issue honestly and openly instead of resorting to emotional tripe like "America bashing".
    The emotional "knee jerk" BS being spouted belongs to you and others who wallow in willing ignorance and simplistically blame American first for the history surrounding events that occurred in the Middle East and who conveniently spew terrorist talking points.

    See above for more history lessons; carry on.

  7. #47
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    Re: War against Taliban 'will be lost by autumn' unless strategy changes

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Detector View Post
    The emotional "knee jerk" BS being spouted belongs to you and others who wallow in willing ignorance and simplistically blame American first for the history surrounding events that occurred in the Middle East and who conveniently spew terrorist talking points.

    See above for more history lessons; carry on.
    blah blah blah, if you disagree with me you hate America, blah blah blah.

    Summed up your arguments for ya. No need to thank me, it's what I do.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: War against Taliban 'will be lost by autumn' unless strategy changes

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    blah blah blah, if you disagree with me you hate America, blah blah blah.

    Summed up your arguments for ya. No need to thank me, it's what I do.
    "Wah, Wah, Wah if you disagree with me, you're just making knee jerk emotional BS, wah, wah, wah."

    I summed up your arguments for you. No need to thank me, it's what I do.

    Funny how you seldom bring anything to the table; my above example even contains a link to the historic records; what do you bring? Whiney nonsensical blather unsubstantiated by any facts.

    Carry on; I can't say I look forward to more of your emotional "knee Jerk" whining.

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    Re: War against Taliban 'will be lost by autumn' unless strategy changes

    No, I'd rather not blind myself to history and think we've done nothing bad. You probably deny Iran-Contra as well. Sit around with your fingers in your ears believing that our government has never acted improperly or done things which have angered an entire group. But fact is that ever since it became known that there was massive oil in the Middle East several decades ago, the West has been in there. Dividing it up, doing what we want, running roughshod over there. Yet according to you, they just hate us for no reason. Woke up one morning and thought "Europe and America suck, let's hate them!". Why? What partisan excuse you got for us? They hate us for our freedoms? Because they're Muslim?

    Blinding yourself to history won't bring about change, it's just stagnation. And stagnation is death. We won't win less we understand the root cause, but you have no interest in the root cause. Pretend we have business messing with other sovereigns and pretending our government has never done anything wrong. And if anyone points out that we have acted suspiciously and that maybe the root cause isn't some irrational hatred but rather that a people are sick of foreigners bombing the crap out of them all the time, taking what they want all the time, ignoring their own soverignty and wishes then they're just America bashing.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: War against Taliban 'will be lost by autumn' unless strategy changes

    Was it not obvious that once they thought they had wrapped up their betrayal of Iraq that they would start in on Afghanistan??

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