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Thread: Man appears free of HIV after stem cell transplant

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    Re: Man appears free of HIV after stem cell transplant

    Quote Originally Posted by Orius View Post
    I forget the term, but technology is advancing at an exponential rate, racing towards a singularity point. I think new innovation is happening faster than ever and the social aspect of humanity cannot keep up with it, especially given that there are so many nations in the world where people are still living at a subsistence level.
    When you have any advancement as Lewis Mumford pointed out only certain technologies are developed out of those that could be developed and while this is often due to material pressures it is also certainly due to social and political ones as well. Those technologies that benefit the ruling classes in our society are far more likely to be developed than those who serve no obvious benefit or perhaps even seem negative, by reducing their power,

    Going back at least to Durkheim there is evidence that rapid sociological change, which technology certainly helps to bring about, often has a great negaitve effect on society. Technology and it developed can both be slowed down to what is best for society and it can become more democratic and controllable by average people all over the world. This is what needs to happen as we quickly enter a world where so many technological advances seem to offer new weapons to tyranny.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

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    Re: Man appears free of HIV after stem cell transplant

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    You talk of science as if it does things on its own. Only scientists are acting in this way and they should act for society and not be treated as some kind of Gods who can work outside society. Science and technology must be made to serve society not society the interests of their practicioners and certainly they should not serve one section above all as they have for so long.
    You keep mentioning them being treated as gods. Why do you think this?

    I do agree that science does not act as independently these days, and it is often used as tool by more powerful people... but scientists in general do not have unlimited resources on their own. They must partner up with some kind of parent organization that gives them money and tools, and sometimes that can form an agenda. In general though, scientists are in it for the research opportunities, and maybe a little prestige on the side.

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    Re: Man appears free of HIV after stem cell transplant

    Quote Originally Posted by Orius View Post
    You keep mentioning them being treated as gods. Why do you think this?
    Because you made phrases that gave that impression. You gave the impression that you think scientists and technology are something which is outside society, autonomous and unbounded by social factors.

    I do agree that science does not act as independently these days, and it is often used as tool by more powerful people... but scientists in general do not have unlimited resources on their own. They must partner up with some kind of parent organization that gives them money and tools, and sometimes that can form an agenda. In general though, scientists are in it for the research opportunities, and maybe a little prestige on the side.
    Science and technology, and we are talking more broadly than scientific research, has never been independent completely. What I'm saying is that science and particularly technology should be made more decentralised and democratic.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

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    Re: Man appears free of HIV after stem cell transplant

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    Because you made phrases that gave that impression. You gave the impression that you think scientists and technology are something which is outside society, autonomous and unbounded by social factors.
    Can you be specific about the things I said which gave you that impression? I only ask because I didn't think that's what I was saying at all, or maybe I didn't explain myself accurately enough.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    Science and technology, and we are talking more broadly than scientific research, has never been independent completely. What I'm saying is that science and particularly technology should be made more decentralised and democratic.
    How would you democratize science? Do you mean we should give the public a vote to give permissions to certain advancements? I was under the impression that science and tech. already wre decentralized. It's not like one organization holds all the chips... not even the government has the kind of control.

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    Re: Man appears free of HIV after stem cell transplant

    Quote Originally Posted by Orius View Post
    Can you be specific about the things I said which gave you that impression? I only ask because I didn't think that's what I was saying at all, or maybe I didn't explain myself accurately enough.
    Phrases which refered to science as something that operates on its own and as scientists and science as something outside society and social forces were where I got the impression from.

    How would you democratize science? Do you mean we should give the public a vote to give permissions to certain advancements? I was under the impression that science and tech. already wre decentralized. It's not like one organization holds all the chips... not even the government has the kind of control.
    I was talking more of technology and scientific research. I'd decentralise them by decentralising society, industry and gov't. They are dominated, but not monopolised of course I'm not saying that, by the large-scale, authoritarian and centralist institutions that dominate industry and gov't specifically the ever-present centralised state and the large economic concern. By developing techology to aid a more decentralised industry and society and by developing this society I'd aim to overcome a centralised of power over technology and science that is as dangerous as any over such accumulation of power, particularly unaccountable power.

    So I'm basically making two points: One that technology should be more decentralised working on the principles that E.F Scumacher put forth; and two we should not aim for as fast technological change as possible but one that is slow enough so that science and technology can really serve a stable, healthy society rather than making it unstable and where more and more technology is not looked upon as the solution everything.
    Last edited by Wessexman; 02-17-09 at 02:06 AM.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

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    Re: Man appears free of HIV after stem cell transplant

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    Phrases which refered to science as something that operates on its own and as scientists and science as something outside society and social forces were where I got the impression from.


    I was talking more of technology and scientific research. I'd decentralise them by decentralising society, industry and gov't. They are dominated, but not monopolised of course I'm not saying that, by the large-scale, authoritarian and centralist institutions that dominate industry and gov't specifically the ever-present centralised state and the large economic concern. By developing techology to aid a more decentralised industry and society and by developing this society I'd aim to overcome a centralised of power over technology and science that is as dangerous as any over such accumulation of power, particularly unaccountable power.

    So I'm basically making two points: One that technology should be more decentralised working on the principles that E.F Scumacher put forth; and two we should not aim for as fast technological change as possible but one that is slow enough so that science and technology can really serve a stable, healthy society rather than making it unstable and where more and more technology is not looked upon as the solution everything.
    If you look particularly at nano tech there is a non profit group started to keep it out of what I think is amateur hands.

    That is super dangerous considering the possibilities nano tech possess.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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    Re: Man appears free of HIV after stem cell transplant

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    If you look particularly at nano tech there is a non profit group started to keep it out of what I think is amateur hands.

    That is super dangerous considering the possibilities nano tech possess.
    Well personally I ask what is the point is developing nano technology at this time? It seems like we jump into these things without even thinking of the consequences while there are many other factors that need to be sorted out in our societies. It just adds one more heap of powder to the keg.

    There seems to be this strange, and so far unsupported assumption, that technology, often as large and centralised as possible, that just by applying more and more technology as quickly as possible we can solve all our new problems. What often seems to happen is it doesn't completely work and then new ones suddenly spring up.
    Last edited by Wessexman; 02-17-09 at 02:24 AM.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

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    Re: Man appears free of HIV after stem cell transplant

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    Well personally I ask what is the point is developing nano technology at this time? It seems like we jump into these things without even thinking of the consequences while there are many other factors that need to be sorted out in our societies. It just adds one more heap of powder to the keg.

    There seems to be this strange, and so far unsupported assumption, that technology, often as large and centralised as possible, will solve all our current problems.
    That is my problem with it as well. The replicating type nano tech devices.
    The possible gray goo end of the world scenario stuff is enough to convince me at this time we need to slow down on it.

    I like amateur science. There is a lot of potential if the elitists in University's stop being snobs about it.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

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    Re: Man appears free of HIV after stem cell transplant

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    That is my problem with it as well. The replicating type nano tech devices.
    The possible gray goo end of the world scenario stuff is enough to convince me at this time we need to slow down on it.

    I like amateur science. There is a lot of potential if the elitists in University's stop being snobs about it.
    I'm very much into the decentralised, althernative technology movement. HAve you ever checked out authors like E.F.Schumacher, Kirkpatrick Sale, Murray Bookchin or Lewis Mumford?
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

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    Re: Man appears free of HIV after stem cell transplant

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    I'm very much into the decentralised, althernative technology movement. HAve you ever checked out authors like E.F.Schumacher, Kirkpatrick Sale, Murray Bookchin or Lewis Mumford?
    Never heard of them. What do they write about? I like to cruise the amateur chemistry and electronics sites.

    I'm trying to get a kit together for my son for chem reactions and biology experiments.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

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