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US unemployment rate reaches 7.6%

Goobieman said:
Capitalistic economies naturally grow anbd contract.
That they do this in no way means that any given contraction is a failure of the system or that the collapse of the system is imminent.

And, dont kid yourself:
If the economy collapses, the government will go with it.
The system that rises from the ashes will be the system best reflecting human nature -- capitalism.
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Thats a huge problem. Any future economic model should be far more stable and more planned, to avoid speculation, boom and busts and so on to achieve sustainable growth which is not based on debt.
 
creativedreams said:
Yes the government will go with it. this is why they absolutely have to give the american people enough money right now so everyone can pay off enough debt to mathmatical be able to make their bills plus be able to spend money to help bring more money in circulation in the economy.
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Such a solution would surely collapse the US dollar and implode the US economy as a result.. You cant just create money out of nothing without the whole country suffering. You have to pay your debts, thats the only solution.
 
Maximus Zeebra said:
Thats a huge problem. Any future economic model should be far more stable and more planned, to avoid speculation, boom and busts and so on to achieve sustainable growth which is not based on debt.
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Yes. Planned economies have proven to be stellar.
 
Goldenboy219 said:
To those who claim the EU is just inconvenienced.



FT.com / Europe - German GDP contracts sharply

Any economy that is heavily reliant on exportation to fund their wealth will begin to take massive deficits, in the form of lost revenue, and greater instances of unemployment.

Nations that depend on current account surpluses are in for a rude awakening.
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I have not said anything to the contrary.. I actually posted breaking news about the dramatic fall of 4.4% this autumn.. If its me you have in your thoughts. The most dramatic thing for the European economy is a collapse in industrial new orders which follows a similar path of industrial production. But then again, most of our other numbers look solid and stable as a huge rock compared with the us blowing sheet.
 
Goobieman said:
:rofl
Giving people $x from a cut in their taxes is 'too litle too late'
Giving people $x from a government spending program? THAT will work!!!
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It will not work when your government is already 12 trillion dollar in debt and your now annual federal budget deficits is predicted to be an average 1 trillion over each of the next 3 years. You can give tax cuts if the government cannot afford it, that will just sweep away the rest of the credibility of the US economy.
 
Goldenboy219 said:
How do you propose civilization as a whole learns about living beyond your means? Government assistance for poor decisions?

:doh
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That wouldnt help. Governments are the ones who made the poor decisions in the first place, and have their own poor decisions to deal with parallel to people poor decisions.
 
Maximus Zeebra said:
It will not work when your government is already 12 trillion dollar in debt and your now annual federal budget deficits is predicted to be an average 1 trillion over each of the next 3 years. You can give tax cuts if the government cannot afford it, that will just sweep away the rest of the credibility of the US economy.
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Then I suggest you criticize the various 'stimulus' packages being bandied about.
 
PeteEU said:
I have stated this time and time again. You can not compare unemployment numbers between any EU nation or the US. The US numbers are not "real" numbers but a freaking poll.
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Thats not accurate. US unemployment rates are built around reports from employment firms(which represents a large proportion of workers) and unemployment filings.
 
Goobieman said:
Then I suggest you criticize the various 'stimulus' packages being bandied about.
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I do.. I criticize ALL stimulus packages, unless the governments can afford it, and most governments in the world are indebted and cannot afford it, so I do not support any of them in reality.. I am highly disappointed when I see European governments doing bailouts and stimulus packages, I never thought they would fall into the same trap.
 
Maximus Zeebra said:
That wouldnt help. Governments are the ones who made the poor decisions in the first place, and have their own poor decisions to deal with parallel to people poor decisions.
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I know, it was rhetorical...
 
Goobieman said:
You claimed that you "just reported".
"Just reporting" precludes analysis.
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I did just report the new.. I am denying all the things you started saying in the beginning of the thread. I also analyzed the news like I usually always do.. End of discussion, this is unimportant.
 
Maximus Zeebra said:
Such a solution would surely collapse the US dollar and implode the US economy as a result.. You cant just create money out of nothing without the whole country suffering. You have to pay your debts, thats the only solution.
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A large bailout is needed immediately to preserve this countries working infrastructure and then immediate attention is required how to start gaining national profits to start paying debts
 
creativedreams said:
A large bailout is needed immediately to preserve this countries working infrastructure and then immediate attention is required how to start gaining national profits to start paying debts
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Personally I think the solution is restraint, better management, long term planning an a more sustainable economy where people live at or below their ability and rather save money than borrow and waste money.
Also completely economic overhaul of the economic model and political reform is necessary to get beyond our current stagnative and counterproductive society.
 
Maximus Zeebra said:
Personally I think the solution is restraint, better management, long term planning an a more sustainable economy where people live at or below their ability and rather save money than borrow and waste money.
Also completely economic overhaul of the economic model and political reform is necessary to get beyond our current stagnative and counterproductive society.
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I certainly agree that there needs to be major reforms to change how our capitalistic economic cycles work.

Otherwise we will just continue the cycle of having major depressions
 
Rodney said:
You continue to make good sense here. The money whore of 100% capialism is why we are here in the first place. Some control over their insatiable glut is over-due. As ugly as the word "socialsm" is in this country, perhaps its time to try it on as a means to control those who are destroying the labor class and the job market in America. The poor didn`t cause this, they only got poorer...while working. The rich will NEVER be satiated. Sorry pigs, time for a diet plan.:cool: Reagan ??? Was that the money whore who invented the trickle down economics,(economic stimulus), we are trying today. I think he also partook in crushing unions who fought for better pay, and better work conditions, for the labor class. Reagan will never be forgotten, much the same as GWB.:cool:
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This is ridiculous and smacks of class envy, which is standard operating procedure in socialist Europe.

Sorry pigs, time for a diet
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I like your choice of words, as it reveals the typical leftist radical view. I know, I once was one and hung around your sort. When you slaughter the pigs (the geese laying the golden eggs), you slaughter those below. How in the world will making wealthy people poorer, change your life for the better?

The above is the sickness of the left. It sounds like Communist propaganda from the 1970's.

The wealthy are responsible for creating jobs. Not government. We're supposed to be a nation of "limited government". Suck the cash out of the market through taxes or people hiding their wealth and who gets it in the teeth? The average guy.

Government is the problem, and it created the cornerstone of our existing problems; Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. Forcing lenders (wealthy, greedy banks) to make risky loans, and then having these companies buy them so they could make more. Banks were forced to make loans under penalty of law. Cuomo spoke about this in 1998, and Obama pushed for these crap loans. Government intrudes into the market, and the average guy is left holding the bag for the government's attempt to use the free market as a social program.

YouTube - How The Democrats Caused The Financial Crisis: Starring Bill Clinton's HUD Secretary Andrew Cuomo And Barack Obama; With Special Guest Appearances By Bill Clinton And Jimmy Carter

Who creates the jobs? Those who take the risk. In Europe the unions have not only weakened their companies but have risked the workers jobs. Same in the US.

Upward mobility in Europe is difficult because of the red tape involved. It's costly and slow. Try opening a company here, and then deal with the employees trying to tell you how to run your business.
 
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creativedreams said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximus Zeebra View Post
Personally I think the solution is restraint, better management, long term planning an a more sustainable economy where people live at or below their ability and rather save money than borrow and waste money.

Also completely economic overhaul of the economic model and political reform is necessary to get beyond our current stagnative and counterproductive society.
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I certainly agree that there needs to be major reforms to change how our capitalistic economic cycles work.

Otherwise we will just continue the cycle of having major depressions
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Government needs restraint. That was a hallmark of the American Experiment.
Government strong where it should be strong (national defense) and weak where it should be weak (leaving individuals and states to set their own course).

Long term planning
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?
This sounds like Marx.
Why not say 5-year plan.
There are too many decisions in a free market for the government to plan for it.
How do plan for innovation you can't foresee?
Something that will change the market quickly and drastically.

The only change to get out of stagnation is the return to the guidelines set by our Founding Fathers.
Get government out of the way.
Unleash the masses and the ocean of cash that is locked up in hiding.
Let people take risk and prosper.
Let the free market decide the winner and losers.
Cycles happen. Recession happens. Jimmy Carter happens.
Obama happens.

Obama has a choice.
Follow Reagan and the Founding fathers, or follow Obama and his European Socialists.

Government is the problem. It confiscates wealth, siphons off a good portion, and spits out a trickle. This money would be far better managed in the hands of the people.

JFK (R-MA) understood this as Reagan understood this.
YouTube - Newsreel - Kennedy Tax Cut Bill
 
creativedreams said:
A large bailout is needed immediately to preserve this countries working infrastructure and then immediate attention is required how to start gaining national profits to start paying debts
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No... Just going on like usual is useless.. We have to make fiscal restraint, we have to live more sustainable lives with focus on other things than just borrowing to buy things we do not need.
We do not need immediate bailouts and stimulus. We need long term government assistance and long term planning to make the economy sustainably grow, alongside natural growth and development that should occur. In other words, more state involvement in the long term, but take care of our problems that we have now, instead of forgetting them and stimulating the unsustainable economy that we have now. Sooner or later we have to adjust anyways, if that is by ourselves, an economic implosion or a worthless currency/hyperinflation, it will happen.
 
zimmer;1057919812 Upward mobility in Europe is difficult because of the red tape involved. It's costly and slow. Try opening a company here said:
This is one of the biggest problems in Europe, and something we need to address at an EU level.. If you see me debating on European forums I always nag on about this to other peoples discontent or them just ignoring it.. Its one if the most vital reforms we need in Europe, to make it easy for anyone to start a business, with a minimum of procedures and a minimum cost, and then rather use the effort on starting the actual business instead of registering it.
I like the American policy on business start ups, I often point to it as an example of business policy to adapt in Europe, but I also like the Danish and Irish models which is even easier and faster(internet based, and based around your national number), and no costs in Denmark.. But then again Denmark have huge taxes for businesses. France have a model which is almost as good as the US, believe it or not, being one of the best models for starting businesses in Europe. Elsewhere its relative expensive and you need to go via a notary in most cases, it can take months, with tons of paperwork and running between a dusin offices at least, back and forward like a ping pong ball.
It annoys me utterly, and it annoys me even more that most Europeans do not take this serious when I tell them we need to reform in this area.

Home - Doing Business - The World Bank Group
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Maximus Zeebra said:
This is one of the biggest problems in Europe, and something we need to address at an EU level.. If you see me debating on European forums I always nag on about this to other peoples discontent or them just ignoring it.. Its one if the most vital reforms we need in Europe, to make it easy for anyone to start a business, with a minimum of procedures and a minimum cost, and then rather use the effort on starting the actual business instead of registering it.
I like the American policy on business start ups, I often point to it as an example of business policy to adapt in Europe, but I also like the Danish and Irish models which is even easier and faster(internet based, and based around your national number), and no costs in Denmark.. But then again Denmark have huge taxes for businesses. France have a model which is almost as good as the US, believe it or not, being one of the best models for starting businesses in Europe. Elsewhere its relative expensive and you need to go via a notary in most cases, it can take months, with tons of paperwork and running between a dusin offices at least, back and forward like a ping pong ball.
It annoys me utterly, and it annoys me even more that most Europeans do not take this serious when I tell them we need to reform in this area.

Home - Doing Business - The World Bank Group
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A second part need be present or people with wealth will open their companies elsewhere. There is ample opportunity outside of Europe.

Part 2: The business owner needs be able to keep his profit should he make one.
 
7.6% is not as bad as it could be. In 1933 during the great depression unemploment reached 25% in America. I think thats about were France is now isn't it?:mrgreen:
 
SgtRock said:
7.6% is not as bad as it could be. In 1933 during the great depression unemploment reached 25% in America. I think thats about were France is now isn't it?:mrgreen:
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Nope it is about the same as the US. Try again.
 
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