Page 4 of 5 FirstFirst ... 2345 LastLast
Results 31 to 40 of 43

Thread: U.S. Taxpayers Risk $9.7 Trillion on Bailouts as Senate Votes

  1. #31
    ANTI**ANTIFA
    ReverendHellh0und's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Temple of Solomon
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 05:01 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    75,571

    Re: U.S. Taxpayers Risk $9.7 Trillion on Bailouts as Senate Votes

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Uhh look at a graph of economic growth during the Great Depression if you don't believe me. The economy was horrible as Hoover kept the economy in stasis, and bottomed out within just a few months of FDR's inauguration. Then we had four years of economic growth before FDR decided the Depression was over and he could cut back.



    A couple points: A) I have the statistics on my side. You have some guy's opinion.



    Well as you yourself acknowledged, WWII helped get us out of a recession. Presumably it was not the killing of Japs that boosted the economy, but rather the government spending on the military sector. We don't have any looming war on our horizon now, but we do have plenty of other things the government could be spending money on.



    What statistics?



    You do know that the government spent money in the private sector BUYING things to go to war, not just having people dig ditches then fill them back up up.....
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

  2. #32
    Enemy Combatant
    Kandahar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Washington, DC
    Last Seen
    10-15-13 @ 08:47 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    20,688

    Re: U.S. Taxpayers Risk $9.7 Trillion on Bailouts as Senate Votes

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    The ravages across europe left the US in a position to leap ahead in terms of production. By the time the Marshall plan was completed, the US had a huge comparative advantage in terms of production at the time.

    We then see the US productivity gap decrease as the rest of the western world redevelopes.
    While that is surely a big reason for our economic growth during the late 1940s and 1950s, it does not explain the record of solid economic growth rate during FDR's pre-war presidency (with the exception of the recession of 1937-38 after FDR cut back on some of his New Deal programs).
    Are you coming to bed?
    I can't. This is important.
    What?
    Someone is WRONG on the internet! -XKCD

  3. #33
    ANTI**ANTIFA
    ReverendHellh0und's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Temple of Solomon
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 05:01 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    75,571

    Re: U.S. Taxpayers Risk $9.7 Trillion on Bailouts as Senate Votes

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    While that is surely a big reason for our economic growth during the late 1940s and 1950s, it does not explain the record of solid economic growth rate during FDR's pre-war presidency (with the exception of the recession of 1937-38 after FDR cut back on some of his New Deal programs).



    You keep claiming this, and claim you have statistics, thus far we have seen none.


    When was the last time we spent our way out of a recession?
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

  4. #34
    I'm not-low all the time
    Kushinator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    West Loop
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 11:42 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    16,254

    Re: U.S. Taxpayers Risk $9.7 Trillion on Bailouts as Senate Votes

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    While that is surely a big reason for our economic growth during the late 1940s and 1950s, it does not explain the record of solid economic growth rate during FDR's pre-war presidency (with the exception of the recession of 1937-38 after FDR cut back on some of his New Deal programs).
    It could be that the economy was prime to retrace its movement. Regardless the New Deal was insufficiently funded to achieve its goal.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

  5. #35
    Enemy Combatant
    Kandahar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Washington, DC
    Last Seen
    10-15-13 @ 08:47 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    20,688

    Re: U.S. Taxpayers Risk $9.7 Trillion on Bailouts as Senate Votes

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    What statistics?
    Oops, sorry. Here they are:

    Year Growth
    1930 -9.4% (Year following the stock market crash)
    1931 -8.5%
    1932 -13.4%
    1933 -2.1% (FDR takes office, economy hits bottom, New Deal begins)
    1934 +7.7%
    1935 +8.1%
    1936 +14.1% (FDR concludes Depression is over and slashes 1937 budget)
    1937 +5.0% (Recession begins in May 1937)
    1938 -4.5% (Recession ends in June 1938)
    1939 +7.9% (WWII begins in Europe in September 1939)

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und
    You do know that the government spent money in the private sector BUYING things to go to war,
    And I support having the government spend money in the private sector BUYING things.

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und
    not just having people dig ditches then fill them back up up.....
    The minute you see me arguing in favor of paying people to dig ditches and fill them back up, you'll have a point.
    Are you coming to bed?
    I can't. This is important.
    What?
    Someone is WRONG on the internet! -XKCD

  6. #36
    ANTI**ANTIFA
    ReverendHellh0und's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Temple of Solomon
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 05:01 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    75,571

    Re: U.S. Taxpayers Risk $9.7 Trillion on Bailouts as Senate Votes

    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

  7. #37
    Enemy Combatant
    Kandahar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Washington, DC
    Last Seen
    10-15-13 @ 08:47 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    20,688

    Re: U.S. Taxpayers Risk $9.7 Trillion on Bailouts as Senate Votes

    Nothing in this article suggests that government spending was the culprit. From your own article:

    "President Roosevelt believed that excessive competition was responsible for the Depression by reducing prices and wages, and by extension reducing employment and demand for goods and services," said Cole, also a UCLA professor of economics. "So he came up with a recovery package that would be unimaginable today, allowing businesses in every industry to collude without the threat of antitrust prosecution and workers to demand salaries about 25 percent above where they ought to have been, given market forces. The economy was poised for a beautiful recovery, but that recovery was stalled by these misguided policies."
    Again, the minute you see me endorsing a policy like that, you'll have a point.


    I'm still waiting for you to address the GDP growth statistics from the 1930s and tell me with a straight face that government spending didn't work.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 02-10-09 at 01:02 PM.
    Are you coming to bed?
    I can't. This is important.
    What?
    Someone is WRONG on the internet! -XKCD

  8. #38
    I'm not-low all the time
    Kushinator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    West Loop
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 11:42 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    16,254

    Re: U.S. Taxpayers Risk $9.7 Trillion on Bailouts as Senate Votes

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Oops, sorry. Here they are:

    Year Growth
    1930 -9.4% (Year following the stock market crash)
    1931 -8.5%
    1932 -13.4%
    1933 -2.1% (FDR takes office, economy hits bottom, New Deal begins)
    1934 +7.7%
    1935 +8.1%
    1936 +14.1% (FDR concludes Depression is over and slashes 1937 budget)
    1937 +5.0% (Recession begins in May 1937)
    1938 -4.5% (Recession ends in June 1938)
    1939 +7.9% (WWII begins in Europe in September 1939)
    You yourself note the economy hits the bottom. What happens after the "bottom"? Recovery was imminent, and yes the slashing of the budget was unhelpful given the current state of the market. Notice it took years to recover from, even after the war there was a strong recession and market crash in 1953. Without a doubt it was caused by the federal budget shrink.

    Also, note the deflationary environment associated with the GD. I would be curious to look over your source. Are these real numbers (price deflator) or nominal GDP?
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

  9. #39
    I'm not-low all the time
    Kushinator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    West Loop
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 11:42 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    16,254

    Re: U.S. Taxpayers Risk $9.7 Trillion on Bailouts as Senate Votes

    I agree, the stimulus at the time completely under shot the shortfall. Obama is teetering towards the same scenario.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

  10. #40
    ANTI**ANTIFA
    ReverendHellh0und's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Temple of Solomon
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 05:01 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    75,571

    Re: U.S. Taxpayers Risk $9.7 Trillion on Bailouts as Senate Votes

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    I agree, the stimulus at the time completely under shot the shortfall. Obama is teetering towards the same scenario.



    Teetering? It is a done deal, except it is going to be much worse....


    STD spending.... like we gonna screw our way out of this mess....
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

Page 4 of 5 FirstFirst ... 2345 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •