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Thread: U.S. Taxpayers Risk $9.7 Trillion on Bailouts as Senate Votes

  1. #21
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    Re: U.S. Taxpayers Risk $9.7 Trillion on Bailouts as Senate Votes

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    yeah.... uhm... I didn't right the article. I simply posted it and followed the breaking news guidlines for posting.....

    FAIL......
    I assume you didn't just pick the article out of a hat? Perhaps you posted the article because you thought it made a point?

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und
    Really? you do know there is what already been a 700 billion bailout, now another what 895 billion porkzilla bill.....

    What is our current national debt? what will it be after this?
    If we take September 30, 2007 as a reference point, the national debt was $9.00 trillion. It will most likely be between $11 and $12 trillion at the end of this year, taking into account the bailout and stimulus.

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und
    How much has the Iraq war cost us thus far.
    Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und
    Gee I really wish that if i got behind on my mortgage, the bank would give me a huge additional loan for me to pay that loan with,.
    I don't understand your analogy. Has the US government ever defaulted on its debts?

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und
    Wrong, in order for capitalism to thrive, there needs to be some failure. the creme rises to the top.
    In an ordinary recession, sure. A severe recession that has the potential to turn into a depression is not the time to be testing that idea.

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und
    throwing money at bankers, automotive, and pet projects will do little to stimulate anything. The market will correct itself.
    "Throwing money" at the financial sector is absolutely vital to stimulating the economy. If the credit markets grind to a halt, businesses no longer have any money to do anything. The market might correct itself but it would take years and years, and meanwhile we would have a fullblown depression on our hands. This is not a situation where a couple of banks made some stupid decisions and should suffer the consequences; this is much more systemic. When nearly every single financial institution is on the verge of collapse, the government must take action.

    However, you are correct that bailouts of automotive companies or pork projects do little to stimulate the economy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und
    it IS the reason to oppose it. it will deepen this recession, and it will force Obama to raise taxes.
    Uhh Obama is most likely going to raise taxes anyway as soon as the economy recovers, as he should.
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    Re: U.S. Taxpayers Risk $9.7 Trillion on Bailouts as Senate Votes

    All this money will be paid back with interest? By whom, may I ask? Will it be the taxpayers or those who borrow it? This attempt at New Deal II is not going to work, it failed the first time and will fail now. If it weren't for WWII FDR would have gone down in history as the biggest socialist and worst president. FDR is nothing but a myth anyway, time and history have turned failure into a legend. The entire liberal ideology rests in the legend of FDR, so they will deny the failure until their dying days.
    Last edited by American; 02-10-09 at 10:26 AM.
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  3. #23
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    Re: U.S. Taxpayers Risk $9.7 Trillion on Bailouts as Senate Votes

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    All this money will be paid back with interest? By whom, may I ask? Will it be the taxpayers or those who borrow it?
    The companies that survive will pay back their debt with interest. The taxpayers will absorb the rest. It certainly is not risking $9.7 trillion, because that figure assumes that there's a real possibility of every single company defaulting, which there isn't.

    Quote Originally Posted by American
    This attempt at New Deal II is not going to work, it failed the first time and will fail now. If it weren't for WWII FDR would have gone down in history as the biggest socialist and worst president. FDR is nothing but a myth anyway, time and history have turned failure into a legend. The entire liberal ideology rests in the legend of FDR, so they will deny the failure until their dying days.
    This rant is just a series of baseless claims and is not even relevant to what is being discussed.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 02-10-09 at 10:47 AM.
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    Re: U.S. Taxpayers Risk $9.7 Trillion on Bailouts as Senate Votes

    Why not Kanahar, he brings up a good point.


    When was the last time we spent our way out of a recession? It failed with the New Deal, and it will fail again.


    But this time there won't be any world war to bail us out.
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

  5. #25
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    Re: U.S. Taxpayers Risk $9.7 Trillion on Bailouts as Senate Votes

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    When was the last time we spent our way out of a recession? It failed with the New Deal, and it will fail again.
    How do you figure? The Great Depression was worst while Hoover was president. It bottomed out in July 1933, just a few months after FDR took office. After that, things began improving almost immediately. 1933-1936 saw steady economic growth as the government spent, spent, spent. Then in 1937, FDR turned conservative at the behest of his advisors and cut back on some of his New Deal programs. The result was another recession in 1937-1938.
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    Re: U.S. Taxpayers Risk $9.7 Trillion on Bailouts as Senate Votes

    Quote Originally Posted by rhinefire View Post
    Obammy has no idea what he is doing. Anyone recall he has no or little experience in governing? Now he is in the middle of the greatest financial nightmare in our history and you know we are all doomed. It cannot be avoided.

    Why don't you get a sandwich board with DOOMED written on it and parade on the street? Suddenly the reckless conservatives who drove us into this mess are experts, able to quickly assess the proposed stimulus plan and render a judgement. Where were you six months ago when all this hit the fan? Where were you eight years ago when your party dominated the government and CAUSED this "financial nightmare"? The only thing that "cannot be avoided" is that there are a lot of conservative, obstructionist idiots who would rather see America ruined than admit that Democrats might know something about economics.

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    Re: U.S. Taxpayers Risk $9.7 Trillion on Bailouts as Senate Votes

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    How do you figure? The Great Depression was worst while Hoover was president. It bottomed out in July 1933, just a few months after FDR took office. After that, things began improving almost immediately. 1933-1936 saw steady economic growth as the government spent, spent, spent. Then in 1937, FDR turned conservative at the behest of his advisors and cut back on some of his New Deal programs. The result was another recession in 1937-1938.


    at your revisionist history. Did you um learn that in a public school?



    FDR's Treasury secretary and close friend, Henry Morganthau, conceded this fact to Congressional Democrats in May 1939: "We have tried spending money. We are spending more than we have ever spent before and it does not work. And I have just one interest, and if I am wrong ... somebody else can have my job. I want to see this country prosperous. I want to see people get a job. I want to see people get enough to eat. We have never made good on our promises ... I say after eight years of this Administration we have just as much unemployment as when we started ... And an enormous debt to boot!"*



    Again, when was the last time we spent our way out of a recession?
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

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    Re: U.S. Taxpayers Risk $9.7 Trillion on Bailouts as Senate Votes

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    at your revisionist history. Did you um learn that in a public school?
    Uhh look at a graph of economic growth during the Great Depression if you don't believe me. The economy was horrible as Hoover kept the economy in stasis, and bottomed out within just a few months of FDR's inauguration. Then we had four years of economic growth before FDR decided the Depression was over and he could cut back.

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und
    FDR's Treasury secretary and close friend, Henry Morganthau, conceded this fact to Congressional Democrats in May 1939: "We have tried spending money. We are spending more than we have ever spent before and it does not work. And I have just one interest, and if I am wrong ... somebody else can have my job. I want to see this country prosperous. I want to see people get a job. I want to see people get enough to eat. We have never made good on our promises ... I say after eight years of this Administration we have just as much unemployment as when we started ... And an enormous debt to boot!"*
    A couple points: A) I have the statistics on my side. You have some guy's opinion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und
    Again, when was the last time we spent our way out of a recession?
    Well as you yourself acknowledged, WWII helped get us out of a recession. Presumably it was not the killing of Japs that boosted the economy, but rather the government spending on the military sector. We don't have any looming war on our horizon now, but we do have plenty of other things the government could be spending money on.
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  9. #29
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    Re: U.S. Taxpayers Risk $9.7 Trillion on Bailouts as Senate Votes

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    at your revisionist history. Did you um learn that in a public school?



    FDR's Treasury secretary and close friend, Henry Morganthau, conceded this fact to Congressional Democrats in May 1939: "We have tried spending money. We are spending more than we have ever spent before and it does not work. And I have just one interest, and if I am wrong ... somebody else can have my job. I want to see this country prosperous. I want to see people get a job. I want to see people get enough to eat. We have never made good on our promises ... I say after eight years of this Administration we have just as much unemployment as when we started ... And an enormous debt to boot!"*



    Again, when was the last time we spent our way out of a recession?
    The problem was they did not spend enough
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: U.S. Taxpayers Risk $9.7 Trillion on Bailouts as Senate Votes

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Uhh well as you yourself acknowledged, WWII helped get us out of a recession. Presumably it was not the killing of Japs that boosted the economy, but rather the government spending on the military sector. We don't have any looming war on our horizon now, but we do have plenty of other things the government could be spending money on.
    The ravages across europe left the US in a position to leap ahead in terms of production. By the time the Marshall plan was completed, the US had a huge comparative advantage in terms of production at the time.

    We then see the US productivity gap decrease as the rest of the western world redevelopes.



    Productivity Growth by Major Sector, 1947-2007. Bar Chart
    Last edited by Kushinator; 02-10-09 at 12:40 PM.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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