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Thread: Cigarette Tax Clouds Boosts Among States

  1. #61
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    Re: Cigarette Tax Clouds Boosts Among States

    Quote Originally Posted by Arch Enemy View Post
    Addictions are genetic and environmental.

    I support the smoking bans in public areas.
    Some people are subject to addiction more than others, this is true. However, nicotine is a highly addictive chemical and can even get those people who aren't subject to addiction as much as others are.

    Good. Do you also agree about regulating tobacco companies so that they no longer put unnecessary poisonous chemicals in cigarettes?

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    Re: Cigarette Tax Clouds Boosts Among States

    Quote Originally Posted by dclxvinoise View Post
    Some people are subject to addiction more than others, this is true. However, nicotine is a highly addictive chemical and can even get those people who aren't subject to addiction as much as others are.

    Good. Do you also agree about regulating tobacco companies so that they no longer put unnecessary poisonous chemicals in cigarettes?

    I have a genetic affinity for cigarettes, however I am not addicted to them. Why is this?
    Well, simply because I have a control of my situation. I do not need cigarettes to relax. I did not grow up with friends and family (except my brother whose been smoking since 15 haha) who smoked (my dad had a bit of stint, as his dad and his step dad, and his dads dads, and his dads dads dads were avid smokers).

    I am however, addicted to running during running seasons, and caffeine all those other times. I think it is hard to be addicted to multiple things at once, as your allocation of time differs whenever you have an addiction.

    One has to choose their poison.
    (I am not totally serious about addictions to caffeine, I just love the hell out of it).
    "I do not underestimate the ability of fanatical groups of terrorists to kill and destroy, but they do not threaten the life of the nation. Whether we would survive Hitler hung in the balance, but there is no doubt that we shall survive al-Qa'ida." -- Lord Hoffmann

  3. #63
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    Re: Cigarette Tax Clouds Boosts Among States

    Quote Originally Posted by dclxvinoise View Post
    I think that the high taxation of cigarettes is a roundabout way of doing that, yes. Then again, I'm highly cynical.
    I just don't see why that's a bad thing, provided that the funds are being used to cover the costs of healthcare for said individuals that would otherwise be coming from the public.

    Yeah, if you increase the taxes so much that people can't afford them that is bound to happen. I just don't agree with that method. People should be allowed to do what they want.
    How is this preventing anyone from doing anything they want? Disincentivizing is not the same as prohibiting. A 10% sales tax makes it more difficult for me to buy a big screen TV, but the state isn't preventing me from buying one if I want to.

    And you'd be surprised what lengths some people will go to in order to get their smokes. A poster on here that I haven't seen in a while, (john1234 I think), had a gross annual income of around $11k, constantly complained about how hard it was to live in poverty, and still managed to spend $4k+/year on cigarettes.

    Why not just regulate the poisonous **** that tobacco companies put in cigarettes. It's not as if those toxic chemicals are a necessary thing for cigarettes to exist. If a company was putting poisonous chemicals in food the FDA would be all over their ass. Why not hold cigarette companies to the same standards?
    I don't particularly disagree.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

  4. #64
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    Re: Cigarette Tax Clouds Boosts Among States

    Quote Originally Posted by Arch Enemy View Post
    the National Center for Health Statistics disagrees

    I think you are labeling smokers unfairly.
    Smoking drastically increases the chance of death from each of the first four of those things.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

  5. #65
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    Re: Cigarette Tax Clouds Boosts Among States

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    I just don't see why that's a bad thing, provided that the funds are being used to cover the costs of healthcare for said individuals that would otherwise be coming from the public.
    Yes, but are all of those high taxes on cigarettes going to that?

    How is this preventing anyone from doing anything they want? Disincentivizing is not the same as prohibiting. A 10% sales tax makes it more difficult for me to buy a big screen TV, but the state isn't preventing me from buying one if I want to.
    Nor does regulating the amount of chemicals that they put in cigarettes. It's merely the government not allowing tobacco companies to blatantly poison people like they currently are.

    And you'd be surprised what lengths some people will go to in order to get their smokes. A poster on here that I haven't seen in a while, (john1234 I think), had a gross annual income of around $11k, constantly complained about how hard it was to live in poverty, and still managed to spend $4k+/year on cigarettes.
    Which illustrates that the high tax on cigarettes aren't entirely affective. It would be one thing if cigarettes weren't addictive. I realize that people who are in poverty are screwing themselves and making their own choice to buy cigarettes, but it's harder for some people to quit than others. I quit 4 years ago and was lucky as hell because it was fairly easy for me. I just think that the high tax is unfairly punishing people who are addicted to the poisonous **** that the tobacco companies are putting in cigarettes to begin with. Why not just regulate the tobacco companies?

  6. #66
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    Re: Cigarette Tax Clouds Boosts Among States

    Quote Originally Posted by Arch Enemy View Post
    I have a genetic affinity for cigarettes, however I am not addicted to them. Why is this?
    Well, simply because I have a control of my situation. I do not need cigarettes to relax. I did not grow up with friends and family (except my brother whose been smoking since 15 haha) who smoked (my dad had a bit of stint, as his dad and his step dad, and his dads dads, and his dads dads dads were avid smokers).

    I am however, addicted to running during running seasons, and caffeine all those other times. I think it is hard to be addicted to multiple things at once, as your allocation of time differs whenever you have an addiction.

    One has to choose their poison.
    (I am not totally serious about addictions to caffeine, I just love the hell out of it).
    It's fine to have a cavalier attitude about cigarettes when you are young, but when people close to you die because of smoking it kind of changes things a bit for you. When it starts affecting your health and you realize that you are going to have to quit at some point or your health will get continue to worsen it's different. I'm not saying that you are like this, but I remember when I was 19. I had a very similar attitude about cigarettes.

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    Re: Cigarette Tax Clouds Boosts Among States

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    Smoking drastically increases the chance of death from each of the first four of those things.

    Sorry for a bit of an amateur question,
    but how is "smoking" defined; I've always found it a bit exaggerated, the relationship between chronic/life threatening ailments and amount of cigarettes.

    It's like saying "eating" will give you heart disease...
    "I do not underestimate the ability of fanatical groups of terrorists to kill and destroy, but they do not threaten the life of the nation. Whether we would survive Hitler hung in the balance, but there is no doubt that we shall survive al-Qa'ida." -- Lord Hoffmann

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    Re: Cigarette Tax Clouds Boosts Among States

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    Something else worth noting:

    Unlike other graduate disciplines, there are no bad med schools (not counting the Caribbean). Anyone who gets accepted to any US med school is incredibly intelligent and hard working and has the necessary tools to become a good doctor.

    I see no reason why the government shouldn't be more proactive about addressing the ridiculously high tuition by subsidizing the cost of med school. My girlfriend will be graduating with $300k in debt, and will then spend 7 years in her residencies making between $45-55k. Her debt has served as a huge factor for her in deciding to enter a field where she can pay it back as soon as possible, as opposed to entering a field that she might like more and that would better serve the community as a whole.
    Hmmm. I have a hard time feeling sorry for a professional who will eventually be making some serious dough down the road. (This is addressing your girlfriend's debt. No offense to your girlfriend.)

  9. #69
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    Re: Cigarette Tax Clouds Boosts Among States

    Quote Originally Posted by dclxvinoise View Post
    Yes, but are all of those high taxes on cigarettes going to that?
    Some states supposedly require it, but I've got the feeling that it's enforced about as well as our SS payments are "set aside" for us.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arch Enemy View Post
    Sorry for a bit of an amateur question,
    but how is "smoking" defined; I've always found it a bit exaggerated, the relationship between chronic/life threatening ailments and amount of cigarettes.

    It's like saying "eating" will give you heart disease...
    I think the difference is that eating can in many ways be good (and is in fact necessary) while smoking is bad. "Eating fatty foods without working out" is a better analogy.

    Quote Originally Posted by aps View Post
    Hmmm. I have a hard time feeling sorry for a professional who will eventually be making some serious dough down the road. (This is addressing your girlfriend's debt. No offense to your girlfriend.)
    None taken, but it's really not as much as you might think. If she went into the field she originally wanted, the average salaries are around $140k/year. With her $300k in debt, that would mean that after spending 4 years in college, 1 year getting a masters, 4 years in med school, and 5-7 years in residency, it would take 20 years of $28k/year loan payments before she'd be in the black. I can't think of any other field where you spend that long in school and work such ****ty hours and are in debt until you're 50+ years old.

    Plenty of people shy away from going into medicine because of the much delayed payoff, choosing instead to cash in by going into other fields where the rewards come quicker. If it weren't for Indian parents who put ungodly amounts of pressure on their kids to become doctors, the country would be ****ed.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

  10. #70
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    Re: Cigarette Tax Clouds Boosts Among States

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    Of course.

    It just so happens that your foible is particularly discrete and directly correlated to health problems, thus making it susceptible to punitive taxation.

    That being said, I've got no problem with increases in alcohol taxes, even thought it would cost me more money. I recognize that alcohol causes increased societal/economic costs in terms of healthcare, and am willing to pay my share of that.

    Food/exercise is a lot more difficult administratively, but I'm in favor of reducing benefits for people who suffer from ailments related to obesity if need be.
    Do you value being a FREE person? Do you really want the gov. this involved in your own personal life? Because the next step is telling you what you can or cannot consume. Do you really wish for a total Big Brother World?

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