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Thread: Report: Holocaust denier will review evidence

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    Re: Report: Holocaust denier will review evidence

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    You are claiming it. You cite it. THen we can go on from there.

    Don't forget the contributions the CHurch has made to education, literacy, the preservation of literature and knowledge, science, and a whole host of other disciplines.
    Is destroying a library of ancient knowledge on par with that?

    Library of Constantinople - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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    Re: Report: Holocaust denier will review evidence

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    If you actually looked at SOME of the primary source documents, you would know that the Catholic Church, at the behest of the Pope, saved Jews all over Catholic Europe. The Pope himself opened up Castle Gandolfo in order to shelter Jews. You can lie all you want, but it doesn't change the fact that the Church systematically assisted as many Jews as was in its power to help.

    BTW, your side is the revisionist side because after WWII, the Church was widely acclaimed for its assistance to Jews during the crisis.
    Where are these sources that say that Castel Gandolfo was used as a Jew hide-out.
    They don't have it on the Gandolfo's main site.

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    Apologize for the Dark Ages? You honestly think the CHurch brought on the Dark Ages? You truly are delusional in your hatred for the Church.

    It was the BARBARIANS who overthrew Rome who brought about the Dark Ages and the Church who held Europe together during it and actually helped bring Europe OUT OF IT!!! Please, read and get an education. Thank you.
    The Church has a great deal it has to apologize for. However, I do not accept their apologies. Why?

    Not because I am a bad person.
    Not because I hate Catholics.
    Not because I am directly affected by their past mistakes.

    but because there are some things that "i'm sorry" doesn't work for. If they were to truly try and make amends, then I will accept nothing less than their reparations made in the form of no longer being a secret organization; reveal w.t.f is in their archives. I will also accept the following:

    Personal Addresses to everyone affected by the Inquisition, the Crusades, The slaying of "heretics", and those who suffered in death camps while the Pope kept a "neutral" official position.

    Quote Originally Posted by http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/anti-semitism/pius.html
    Pope Pius XII's (1876-1958) actions during the Holocaust remain controversial. For much of the war, he maintained a public front of indifference and remained silent while German atrocities were committed. He refused pleas for help on the grounds of neutrality, while making statements condemning injustices in general. Privately, he sheltered a small number of Jews and spoke to a few select officials, encouraging them to help the Jews.
    How can anyone have faith whenever the religious leader is committing the greatest crime against humanity: Indifference.
    "I do not underestimate the ability of fanatical groups of terrorists to kill and destroy, but they do not threaten the life of the nation. Whether we would survive Hitler hung in the balance, but there is no doubt that we shall survive al-Qa'ida." -- Lord Hoffmann

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    Re: Report: Holocaust denier will review evidence

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    If you actually looked at SOME of the primary source documents, you would know that the Catholic Church, at the behest of the Pope, saved Jews all over Catholic Europe. The Pope himself opened up Castle Gandolfo in order to shelter Jews. You can lie all you want, but it doesn't change the fact that the Church systematically assisted as many Jews as was in its power to help.

    BTW, your side is the revisionist side because after WWII, the Church was widely acclaimed for its assistance to Jews during the crisis.
    So still nothing to provide but an Easter egg hunt? Noted. Ludahai the Denier dismissed.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Report: Holocaust denier will review evidence

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    If you actually looked at SOME of the primary source documents, you would know that the Catholic Church, at the behest of the Pope, saved Jews all over Catholic Europe. The Pope himself opened up Castle Gandolfo in order to shelter Jews. You can lie all you want, but it doesn't change the fact that the Church systematically assisted as many Jews as was in its power to help.

    BTW, your side is the revisionist side because after WWII, the Church was widely acclaimed for its assistance to Jews during the crisis.
    But here. I'll shed some light on your Castel* Gandolfo

    CNS STORY: Reconciliation with Jews a hallmark of John Paul's papacy

    In Miami, the pope repeated the promise he made at Castel Gandolfo, that the Vatican would publish a Catholic statement on the Holocaust and anti-Semitism.

    Even that document, issued with a papal introduction 11 years later, drew mixed reaction.

    It won universal approval for its "mea culpa" about past Christian discrimination against the Jews and its strong condemnation of the practices and ideas that led to the Nazis' "final solution."

    But many Jewish leaders said they were disappointed with the document's distinction between Christian "anti-Judaism" and Nazi "anti-Semitism" and its defense of Pope Pius XII's policies during World War II.
    Vatican Apologizes To Jews; Church Cites Failings In Fighting Holocaust | Article from The Washington Post | HighBeam Research

    The Roman Catholic Church formally apologized today for failing to take more decisive action in challenging the Nazi regime during World War II to stop the extermination of more than 6 million Jews.

    But in a long-awaited document on the church's role in the Holocaust, the Vatican defended Pope Pius XII, who headed the church during the war, from accusations that he turned a blind eye to the systematic killing of Jews. Some critics say Pius was motivated by church religious prejudices dating back to the death of Jesus Christ.
    France 24 | Jewish leaders condemn revisionist bishop's rehabilitation | France 24

    Uneasy relations between the Vatican and Israel have been further strained by plans to declare Nazi-era Pope Pius XII a saint, despite widespread criticism of his inaction during the Holocaust.

    The controversy, which has lingered for decades, resurfaced in October as the pontiff defended the memory of his wartime predecessor and said he wanted him beatified soon -- a first step towards declaring him a saint.

    Vatican spokesman Federico Lombardi said recent controversial statements by Williamson, 68, were a separate issue.
    Want to keep going? I can do this all night. I looooooooooove mentally destroying revisionists like yourself.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Report: Holocaust denier will review evidence

    Quote Originally Posted by Lerxst View Post
    How many infraction points am I sitting on right now? Damnit...well the proper response for this post will get me suspended so I'll water it down this time.


    Stop right there. There are no "facts" that definitively state the gas chambers never existed. You need to stop wielding this bald faced lie right now.
    In science you never ever will use "statements of witness" against evidence, and science IS my witness.


    How you could assume that Tashah of all people doesn't know the root origins of the word "holocaust" boggles the mind. How long have you been a member here? This tact is weak at best and indicates that you are stooping to a level of debate that is severely lacking in merit. This isn't even substantial enough to be considered a red herring. It's a simple diversion wrapped up in an insult.
    The insult is the misuse of the word "holocaust" because the dead bodies were burned to prevent plagues and not so to exterminate people.


    Patently false. That is a common myth propagated by the likes of Mattagno, Leuchter, and Faurisson. It's been debunked not only by eyewitness testimony but by the release of the Death Books. The Typhus Myth is just that, a myth. It's apparent that you put no credibility in eye witness accounts when their stories are backed up by evidence. How about the German soldiers who testified to the existence of gas chambers and systematic execution of innocent? What about the reports of the Polish underground during the war that detailed mass extermination of prisoners? What about the findings of the Institute for Forensic Research which clearly establish evidence of gas chamber use? How about the numerous survivors who testified about falsifying death certificates to read "heart attack, heart failure, influenza, diarrhea?'
    See? You want to use the statements of witness which favored the tales, , and such is not only irrelevant but also there were 1 million of Germans soldiers ready to testify that such gas chambers never existed, and they were not heard. So, the use of witness from your part is debunked again.

    Further, nobody ever said that this was a sacrifice to any God. Holocaust was an appropriate application of the word in describing what happened to the Jews during the Nazi attempt at wiping out the European Jews. They were murdered by the millions and a symbol of that process were the ovens in which the bodies were disposed of. Hitlers campaign of murder against the Jews was definitely one of genocidal proportions...the intent was there. The ovens came to symbolize the destruction of the Jews under his reign.
    Hold your horse right there, you are talking about the killing of millions of Jews without showing any valid evidence. Sorry but your statement still void by the scientific point of view. And, the word "holocaust" it does imply sacrifice by fire, and such didn't happen with the jews.

    Thanks for the lesson, but where in this discussion did anyone display a lack of understanding of that word.
    Now that you have reshaped your understanding of the meaning of words, you must change the words "holocaust" by "the burning of dead bodies to avoid diseases and plagues, plus you must change the word "genocide" by the word "slavery" because such is mostly the intentions to keep people in concentration camps: to be used for work.

    Are you serious? You are a denier, without a doubt. Research the "Final Solution" why don't you. Debunk the evidence surrounding that and get back with us.
    With "us"? How many are you?

    For the same reason they faked the death certificates of tens of thousands of registered prisoners and failed to register millions of others.
    And how do you know all that when you are practically saying that no accurate records are available at all?

    Even the Nazi's knew they couldn't just flaunt genocide to the world. Hitler's plan was to restore Germany to a place of world prominence, to avenge her fall from grace after World War 1. Unlike Stalin, who killed with wanton abandon out of paranoia, Hitler actually thought he could reach a plateau of sort in which he was viewed as some kind of respectable supreme ruler. It was his deep rooted hatred of the Jews, his failed understanding of tactics, and his misguided strategic vision that ruined him. At some point the German leadership knew they would have to answer as to where those prisoners went.
    Are you talking about the few thousands who were arrested? Because millions of people acquired false passports and traveled to all the parts of the world escaping from the war. Such a migration of millions of people is not recorded but just visit far away lands and high mountains in other countries and yes...they still there with their names changed but they still there.

    The problem was there were too many of them and they were forced to begin killing them and disposing of their bodies as quickly as they could. Who knows why they chose gas chambers over bullets? We know that cremation was quickly realized as a better solution than mass graves because the thousands of corpses were tainting water supplies and causing serious health issues for the soldiers and those in surrounding areas. Further cremation destroyed evidence that would indicate a mechanism of death. This goes hand in hand with falsifying death records.
    Your story is funny, Hitler didn't care about what people might think about him, the evidence is his invasions here and there, because in those years the Geneva Convention didn't exist at all and countries used to invade other countries and occupy their lands and kill any opponent...just look US in Hawaii or Israel in Palestine. It was the "law" of those times. Today you are criticizing Hitler with the new "international law", and sorry but such is not the right method.

    They wanted to exterminate the European Jews more than anyone else. Here you are adding a pound of sand to the argument in order to circle around some semblance of a point. And your logic of "that's not how I would have done it" has no merit in this argument.
    That is idiot's stories, Hitler needed the people of every country not so to kill them. His tactic was to destroy their defenses not so to kill populations. You must admire Attila the Hunt as your hero, but Hitler wasn't like that. I'm not saying that Hitler was a great thing as people, but he wasn't the sanguinary Dracula that you try to portrait about him. He was an ambitious man who acquired an extraordinary power as no other man has reached in human history, and I think that you are jealous of him because this reason.

    Irrelevant given the fact that millions were systematically murdered...taken to camps, not registered, and then disappeared never to be heard from again. Where did they go?
    That is not the question, the real question is "to what country they migrated escaping from Hitler?

    Since we don't have any brand new massive communities of Jews popping up in Africa or Asia,
    Check US, Canada and South America, Australia and even China and review birth certificates because many of them just changed names and became "Christians" to avoid further persecution, because in those years of the war they believed that Hitler was to dominate the entire world.

    and we do have death camps with execution blocks, gas chambers, and large multi-baffled furnaces with ovens that were very efficient in destroying human remains to the tune of hundreds if not thousands a day all across Europe...well I think you see where this is going.
    Yeap, to fantasy island, because such didn't happen in reality.


    This is a complete fraud. You are taking a situation that already has an established and proven explanation and trying to come up with an alternative explanation based upon logic alone, sans actual supporting evidence. Yes some died of disease, some died of starvation, but many many more were executed. Yet evidence (both scientific and eyewitness testimony) clearly debunks this.
    Disregard the witness testimony, here we are talking about facts as evidence, and you must show the facts otherwise your statements will become opinions only.

    Many prisoners were killed immediately upon their arrival at places like Auschwitz. Try again and this time leave out the irrelevant red herrings and focus on what the Nazi's actually did (that thing you are trying your level best to deny).
    Mostly the ones who didn't want to submit themselves to their new authority.

    So the revisionist accuses everyone else of revisionism. Nice. That's it? Basically you're argument is "we aren't lying, the eye witnesses are lying, the death books are fabrications, the evidence is tainted, the evidence is manufactured to further the lie of the Holocaust." Well then I'll debunk your denial of the Holocaust with this...You Are A LIAR! I win.
    The number of deaths in the books do no count more than few thousands, what the heck are you talking about?


    And you have never heard of a word with one or more similar or dissimilar meanings have you? Your stupid line of attack here won't work Denier.
    Denier, eh? well this "denier" knows English and you don't.

    Oh this is just precious. Gaps in doors and windows you say? How about the hundreds of people each year who die in old drafty homes from carbon monoxide poisoning? You are building a defense around the myth that you need sealed tight enclosures to facilitate killing people with poisonous gas. That is a lie, all you need is a tent, time, and no way for them to get out of the tent. Many people have died while camping by falling asleep in a tent with generator exhaust seeping in while they were asleep.
    You don't get it. The leaks should kill everybody inside the buildings, this means the gas killing also the Nazis who were inside in the other rooms. Do you have a brain? well, use it to think and not so to imagine stupid arguments.

    Put twenty people in a room, with leaky windows and doors, and begin pumping in carbon monoxide (from a gasoline burning engine exhaust) or cyanide and see what happens. They panic, they breath deeply from screaming, and speed the effects. It's quite efficient.
    Then, your point is that the Jews died by hysteria and not so by gas, sheeesss! now you have started a new theory...

    Sorry but the burden of proof is on you to debunk the multitude of eyewitness accounts from survivors, soldiers serving in the camps, and the mountains of evidence supporting the claim.
    Hell with those false witness, facts rules and no facts have been given by you.

    You are calling these people liars. People who were there and participated to one degree or another and survived to give their accounting.
    Yes, if the facts do not support their words, all those people are no more than liars. What do you expect?

    You'll not get away with this on this board. Go to Stormfront if this is what you want to engage in. I find your antics here disgusting.
    What I find disgusting is to see how a big lie like the killing of millions of people in concentration camps has been spread out without a single evidence supporting such thing. Today, thanks to science such a myth called the holocaust is finally proved as a hoax.
    Last edited by conquer; 02-10-09 at 03:18 AM.

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    Re: Report: Holocaust denier will review evidence

    Quote Originally Posted by conquer View Post
    In science you never ever will use "statements of witness" against evidence, and science IS my witness.




    The insult is the misuse of the word "holocaust" because the dead bodies were burned to prevent plagues and not so to exterminate people.




    See? You want to use the statements of witness which favored the tales, , and such is not only irrelevant but also there were 1 million of Germans soldiers ready to testify that such gas chambers never existed, and they were not heard. So, the use of witness from your part is debunked again.



    Hold your horse right there, you are talking about the killing of millions of Jews without showing any valid evidence. Sorry but your statement still void by the scientific point of view. And, the word "holocaust" it does imply sacrifice by fire, and such didn't happen with the jews.



    Now that you have reshaped your understanding of the meaning of words, you must change the words "holocaust" by "the burning of dead bodies to avoid diseases and plagues, plus you must change the word "genocide" by the word "slavery" because such is mostly the intentions to keep people in concentration camps: to be used for work.



    With "us"? How many are you?



    And how do you know all that when you are practically saying that no accurate records are available at all?



    Are you talking about the few thousands who were arrested? Because millions of people acquired false passports and traveled to all the parts of the world escaping from the war. Such a migration of millions of people is not recorded but just visit far away lands and high mountains in other countries and yes...they still there with their names changed but they still there.



    Your story is funny, Hitler didn't care about what people might think about him, the evidence is his invasions here and there, because in those years the Geneva Convention didn't exist at all and countries used to invade other countries and occupy their lands and kill any opponent...just look US in Hawaii or Israel in Palestine. It was the "law" of those times. Today you are criticizing Hitler with the new "international law", and sorry but such is not the right method.



    That is idiot's stories, Hitler needed the people of every country not so to kill them. His tactic was to destroy their defenses not so to kill populations. You must admire Attila the Hunt as your hero, but Hitler wasn't like that. I'm not saying that Hitler was a great thing as people, but he wasn't the sanguinary Dracula that you try to portrait about him. He was an ambitious man who acquired an extraordinary power as no other man has reached in human history, and I think that you are jealous of him because this reason.



    That is not the question, the real question is "to what country they migrated escaping from Hitler?



    Check US, Canada and South America, Australia and even China and review birth certificates because many of them just changed names and became "Christians" to avoid further persecution, because in those years of the war they believed that Hitler was to dominate the entire world.



    Yeap, to fantasy island, because such didn't happen in reality.




    Disregard the witness testimony, here we are talking about facts as evidence, and you must show the facts otherwise your statements will become opinions only.



    Mostly the ones who didn't want to submit themselves to their new authority.



    The number of deaths in the books do no count more than few thousands, what the heck are you talking about?




    Denier, eh? well this "denier" knows English and you don't.



    You don't get it. The leaks should kill everybody inside the buildings, this means the gas killing also the Nazis who were inside in the other rooms. Do you have a brain? well, use it to think and not so to imagine stupid arguments.



    Then, your point is that the Jews died by hysteria and not so by gas, sheeesss! now you have started a new theory...



    Hell with those false witness, facts rules and no facts have been given by you.



    Yes, if the facts do not support their words, all those people are no more than liars. What do you expect?



    What I find disgusting is to see how a big lie like the killing of millions of people in concentration camps has been spread out without a single evidence supporting such thing. Today, thanks to science such a myth called the holocaust is finally proved as a hoax.
    I see nothing here but your falsehoods and lies. There is no science that backs you. You have posted no evidence, because there is none. You are a liar or you just believe in the anti-semetic fantasies that have been spoon fed to you by who knows whom. Go back to stormfront.
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    Re: Report: Holocaust denier will review evidence

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    Is destroying a library of ancient knowledge on par with that?

    Library of Constantinople - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    You are not only citing a Wikipedia article, you are citing a three-line "stub".

    How much actually control of the Crusades do you think the Church actually had?
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    Re: Report: Holocaust denier will review evidence

    Quote Originally Posted by Arch Enemy View Post
    Where are these sources that say that Castel Gandolfo was used as a Jew hide-out.
    They don't have it on the Gandolfo's main site.
    "No fewer than three thousand Jews found refuge at Castel Gandolfo, the pope's summer residence." "... 477 ROman Jews were sheltered in the Vatican and its enclaves, "while another 4238 found refuge in the numerous monasteries and convents in Rome.

    Rabbi Dalin (p. 83) from at least three different citings.


    The Church has a great deal it has to apologize for. However, I do not accept their apologies. Why?

    Not because I am a bad person.
    Not because I hate Catholics.
    Not because I am directly affected by their past mistakes.
    If they don't affect you, then you shouldn't worry about them.

    but because there are some things that "i'm sorry" doesn't work for. If they were to truly try and make amends, then I will accept nothing less than their reparations made in the form of no longer being a secret organization; reveal w.t.f is in their archives. I will also accept the following:
    So, any "secret organization" owes an apology?

    Personal Addresses to everyone affected by the Inquisition, the Crusades, The slaying of "heretics", and those who suffered in death camps while the Pope kept a "neutral" official position.
    You are talking about the "Nazi Death Camps"? What did you want the POpe to do, so out, put on the SUperman uniform and snatch each and every Jew out of the camps? All of this while he was surrounded by Nazi Germany armies? How pathetic. If you look at even some of the documents released in the TWELVE VOLUMES of WWII-era documents released by the Vatican, you would realize the Church, at the direction of the Pope, worked to save HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF JEWS from the SHoah.



    How can anyone have faith whenever the religious leader is committing the greatest crime against humanity: Indifference.
    If you believe the Pope was indifferent during this calamity, you are badly informed.
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    Re: Report: Holocaust denier will review evidence

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post

    Want to keep going? I can do this all night. I looooooooooove mentally destroying revisionists like yourself.
    How do you account for the fact that Jews had a higher survival rate in countries with large Catholic populations rather than those where the Catholic Church wasn't as influential?

    How to you account for the thousands directly shelted by the Vatican in Rome and its environs?

    How do you account for the hundreds of Papal missives to Church representatives throughout Europe ordering them to save as many JEws as possible?

    There is a lot you can't account for once you actually look at the PRIMARY source evidence.

    I love the fact that haters like yourself won't even look at the history.

    Please explain to me why newspaper articles in multiple languages PRAISED the work of the Church and Pope in working on behalf of Jews.

    All you have is historical revisionism. When one looks at the documents of the day, it is clear the Church was working tirelessly on behalf of as many Jews as it could.
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    Re: Report: Holocaust denier will review evidence

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    You are not only citing a Wikipedia article, you are citing a three-line "stub".

    How much actually control of the Crusades do you think the Church actually had?
    Fine attack the source. I really don't think there is much discussion here nor am I going to waste the effort since in your eyes the Catholic Church genuflected on.

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