Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 19

Thread: Controversy surrounds Obama's faith office

  1. #1
    Sage
    scourge99's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    The Wild West
    Last Seen
    01-27-12 @ 02:50 AM
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    6,233

    Controversy surrounds Obama's faith office

    http://m.cnn.com/cnn/ne/politics/detail/242697

    Controversy surrounds Obama's faith office.

    President Obama's newly revamped Office of Faith Based Initiatives is reigniting a contentious debate across the ideological spectrum over whether religious organizations that accept funds from the government should be allowed to discriminate when hiring.In one corner is a string of religion-backed organizations that have accepted federal funds from the 8-year-old program to advance their secular charity work. President Bush issued an executive order in 2002 that allowed these groups to continue their practice of discrimination with respect to hiring. Specifically, many of the organizations carry policies against hiring outside their religion or hiring homosexuals whose lifestyles conflict with church doctorines.In the other corner are separation-of-church-and-state advocates and human-rights organizations that say the government must constitutionally compel these organizations to follow nondiscrimination laws if they accept federal funding. Anything less, they say, would at best be a violation of church-state separation and at worst an implicit endorsement of discrimination.

    ...

    Obama himself waded into the debate during the presidential campaign, delivering a widely viewed speech in Zanesville, Ohio, during which he endorsed faith-based programs, but said the beneficiaries of such government aid should be forced to cease discriminatory practices

    "If you get a federal grant, you can't use that grant money to proselytize to the people you help and you can't discriminate against them -- or against the people you hire -- on the basis of their religion," Obama said in the July 1 speech at the East Side Community Ministry

    ...

    "President Obama understands he's at risk of alienating the vast majority of the evangelical community," Rodriguez said.

    Let's make this very easy to understand for everyone by using an example much easier to relate with. If the KKK was receiving government money and performing charity work is it OK for them to discriminate against black people when they hire workers for the charity services funded by gov't? No, it is not.

    However, the KKK could receive funds if it does not have a policy of discriminating when it highers workers for the charity services. This does not mean they cannot discriminate for membership. What this means is that the KKK must clearly show the difference between members and workers who are paid using gov't funds.

    This is simply a case where people are attempting to justify the means by the ends. That is, (going back to the KKK example) people are trying to convince others that it is ok for the KKK to discriminate in government funded programs as long as they help enough people.

    It appears Obama is just trying to save face and is not reneging on his promise. Hopefully this will not be ANOTHER broken promise.
    Last edited by scourge99; 02-05-09 at 04:56 PM.
    If you believe in the Supernatural then you can become a millionaire!

    Questioning or criticizing another's core beliefs is inadvertently perceived as offensive and rude.

  2. #2
    ANTI**ANTIFA
    ReverendHellh0und's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Temple of Solomon
    Last Seen
    Today @ 06:23 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    75,680

    Re: Controversy surrounds Obama's faith office

    Are you seriously comparing faith based chairties to the KKK?
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

  3. #3
    Slayer of the DP Newsbot
    danarhea's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Last Seen
    Today @ 10:58 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    39,749

    Re: Controversy surrounds Obama's faith office

    I believe that government needs to stay out of the religion business - Period. I was against Bush doing this, and I am just as much against Obama doing this.
    The ghost of Jack Kevorkian for President's Physician: 2016

  4. #4
    Student Democrat4life's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Last Seen
    06-26-10 @ 08:21 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Liberal
    Posts
    194

    Re: Controversy surrounds Obama's faith office

    Quote Originally Posted by scourge99 View Post
    CNN || Controversy surrounds Obama's faith office




    Let's make this very easy to understand for everyone by using an example much easier to relate with. If the KKK was receiving government money and performing charity work is it OK for them to discriminate against black people when they hire workers for the charity services funded by gov't? No, it is not.

    However, the KKK could receive funds if it does not have a policy of discriminating when it highers workers for the charity services. This does not mean they cannot discriminate for membership. What this means is that the KKK must clearly show the difference between members and workers who are paid using gov't funds.

    This is simply a case where people are attempting to justify the means by the ends. That is, (going back to the KKK example) people are trying to convince others that it is ok for the KKK to discriminate in government funded programs as long as they help enough people.

    It appears Obama is just trying to save face and is not reneging on his promise. Hopefully this will not be ANOTHER broken promise.
    what broken promise? He's only been in office 15 days, give him some time!




    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    Are you seriously comparing faith based chairties to the KKK?
    They are both just as bad in my opinion. If the churchs could launch a crusade against gays and lynch them, they would.
    Quote Originally Posted by President Barack Hussein Obama's Inaugural Address
    Today I say to you that the challenges we face are real. They are serious and they are many. They will not be met easily or in a short span of time. But know this, America they will be met.
    If I don't got it, you don't got it, got it?

  5. #5
    Sage
    scourge99's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    The Wild West
    Last Seen
    01-27-12 @ 02:50 AM
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    6,233

    Re: Controversy surrounds Obama's faith office

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    Are you seriously comparing faith based chairties to the KKK?
    Curtosy of Jerry: http://www.debatepolitics.com/1057912620-post458.html

    A "loaded question", like a loaded gun, is a dangerous thing. A loaded question is a question with a false or questionable presupposition, and it is " loaded" with that presumption. The question "Have you stopped beating your wife?" presupposes that you have beaten your wife prior to its asking, as well as that you have a wife. If you are unmarried, or have never beaten your wife, then the question is loaded.Since this example is a yes/no question, there are only the following two direct answers:"Yes, I have stopped beating my wife", which entails "I was beating my wife.""No, I haven't stopped beating my wife", which entails "I am still beating my wife." If you answer "yes" then you are blindly following just whatever the text says.If you answer "no" then you don't really believe in the authority of the text.Quote: Since a question is not an argument, simply asking a loaded question is not a fallacious argument. Rather, loaded questions are typically used to trick someone into implying something they did not intend. For instance, salespeople learn to ask such loaded questions as: "Will that be cash or charge?" This question gives only two alternatives, thus presuming that the potential buyer has already decided to make a purchase, which is similar to the Black-or-White Fallacy. If the potential buyer answers the question directly, he may suddenly find himself an actual buyer.
    So in reponse to your loaded question:

    I'm comparing the discrimination. Nowhere do I say or even imply that the KKK and faith based charities are the same EXCEPT for their policies of. discrimination.
    Last edited by scourge99; 02-05-09 at 05:12 PM.
    If you believe in the Supernatural then you can become a millionaire!

    Questioning or criticizing another's core beliefs is inadvertently perceived as offensive and rude.

  6. #6
    ANTI**ANTIFA
    ReverendHellh0und's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Temple of Solomon
    Last Seen
    Today @ 06:23 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    75,680

    Re: Controversy surrounds Obama's faith office

    Quote Originally Posted by Democrat4life View Post
    what broken promise? He's only been in office 15 days, give him some time!

    True believer.





    They are both just as bad in my opinion. If the churchs could launch a crusade against gays and lynch them, they would.


    This sort of hatred you post makes you as bigoted IMO as the KKK.
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

  7. #7
    ANTI**ANTIFA
    ReverendHellh0und's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Temple of Solomon
    Last Seen
    Today @ 06:23 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    75,680

    Re: Controversy surrounds Obama's faith office

    Quote Originally Posted by scourge99 View Post
    Yes.. I'm comparing the discrimination. Nowhere do I say or even imply that the KKK and faith based charities are the same EXCEPT for their policies of discrimination.

    Look over what I said again before you feign outrage with loaded questions. That appears to be your forte on this forum



    You do know that many people of all faiths are helped by christian charities right?


    What an ignorant statment on your part.
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

  8. #8
    Student Democrat4life's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Last Seen
    06-26-10 @ 08:21 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Liberal
    Posts
    194

    Re: Controversy surrounds Obama's faith office

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post

    This sort of hatred you post makes you as bigoted IMO as the KKK.
    Uhm

    Not really. Really. The church is against gays and if they could get away with lynching them all and stringing them from trees you know thye would. And I'm sure if they could launch another crusade against the Muslims they would.

    The christian faith isnt so innocent, nor is it non-violent.

    And I told you we wouldn't agree often xD
    Quote Originally Posted by President Barack Hussein Obama's Inaugural Address
    Today I say to you that the challenges we face are real. They are serious and they are many. They will not be met easily or in a short span of time. But know this, America they will be met.
    If I don't got it, you don't got it, got it?

  9. #9
    Sage
    scourge99's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    The Wild West
    Last Seen
    01-27-12 @ 02:50 AM
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    6,233

    Re: Controversy surrounds Obama's faith office

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    You do know that many people of all faiths are helped by christian charities right?
    Yes, I do. What does that have to do with anything I posted??

    You seem to be confused on what this thread is about.
    If you believe in the Supernatural then you can become a millionaire!

    Questioning or criticizing another's core beliefs is inadvertently perceived as offensive and rude.

  10. #10
    Sage
    Ikari's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Colorado
    Last Seen
    12-08-17 @ 01:05 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Left
    Posts
    54,124

    Re: Controversy surrounds Obama's faith office

    Quote Originally Posted by Democrat4life View Post
    Uhm

    Not really. Really. The church is against gays and if they could get away with lynching them all and stringing them from trees you know thye would. And I'm sure if they could launch another crusade against the Muslims they would.

    The christian faith isnt so innocent, nor is it non-violent.

    And I told you we wouldn't agree often xD
    The Christian faith is in and of itself ridiculously non-violent and accepting. The human implementation of it is not so much. But on the grander scale, I would agree that some churches (like that one from Kansas) would like to lynch gays and would lead a new war against Muslims. But I would have to say the majority probably not so much. Maybe I'm out of touch with what Christians want these days, I'm an atheist so I don't really keep up with it too much. But I wouldn't go ahead and lump them all into one basket like that.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •