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Thread: What GOP Leaders deem wasteful in Senate stimulus bill

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    Re: What GOP Leaders deem wasteful in Senate stimulus bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Detector View Post
    If your production possibilities frontier includes telling me what kind of car I can drive, when I can turn on my appliances and where I can work; no thank you. I prefer the arena of the free market with limited Government intrusions which are part of the cause of wild swings and surges in market forces.

    It is not perfect; but this is far from a perfect world and nothing man has invented has worked better to feed people, allow them opportunity to prosper and to live in a way that permits freedom of expression and choice.
    No i am referring to the financialization that is required to finance a $1 trillion war. That is $1 trillion that is invested in government treasuries, and $1 trillion less available for investment in the private sector.

    It is a simple act of crowding out private investment capital, something you seem to desire from your above statement. The sheer fact that you have not realized this goes lengths to show your expertise in the matter.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: What GOP Leaders deem wasteful in Senate stimulus bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    No i am referring to the financialization that is required to finance a $1 trillion war. That is $1 trillion that is invested in government treasuries, and $1 trillion less available for investment in the private sector.
    What war has cost $1T?

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    Re: What GOP Leaders deem wasteful in Senate stimulus bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    What war has cost $1T?
    From the Congressional Budget Office:
    total spending for U.S. operations in Iraq and Afghanistan and other activities related to the war on terrorism would amount to between $1.2 trillion and $1.7 trillion for fiscal years 2001 through 2017


    http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/86xx/doc8..._Testimony.pdf

    Not including interest, which would jack to total up to about $2.4 trillion
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: What GOP Leaders deem wasteful in Senate stimulus bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    From the Congressional Budget Office:
    So, you were referring to the War on Terror, in its entirety, over 16 years.
    Last edited by Goobieman; 02-04-09 at 01:29 PM.

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    Re: What GOP Leaders deem wasteful in Senate stimulus bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    From the Congressional Budget Office:



    http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/86xx/doc8..._Testimony.pdf

    Not including interest, which would jack to total up to about $2.4 trillion
    So what, the Federal govt is suppose to defend the US.....it's in the Constitution.
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    Re: What GOP Leaders deem wasteful in Senate stimulus bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    Iraq had no involvement what so ever in the 911 attacks, and i find it laughable that you attempted to correlate the two.
    You missed the point. We know Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11 and no one has said otherwise, though many try to twist the words of Bush to say that he did. 9/11 was yet another example of IRREFUTABLE proof that isolationist policies are doomed to failure. That simply sitting apathetic to the despots and tyrants of the world WILL catch up with you and the costs of such apathy can be extraordinarily high even when you are the most powerful and strongest in the world by far. That is the lesson of 9/11.

    Eliminating Saddam and helping Iraqis create a democracy is taking a proactive stance to combating tyrants and despots who are either foreseeable threats or contribute to foreseeable threats.

    We didn't go there to conquor or control or to steal or to colonize. We went there to plant the seeds of freedom and democracy to create a better tomorrow for both us and the Iraqis and hopefully the entire region. Such traumatizing change does not come cheap. Nor will it ever. Is it a price you are willing to pay to secure a better future or shall we wallow, apathetic in the chaos and pray that it magically works itself out?

    If you add the 4,000 plus lives lost in Iraq, you now have (according to your 911 estimate) over 7,000 causalities, all while we are no safer than we were pre invasion.
    But are we safer than we would be now and in the future if we left Saddam in power?

    Do pre-emptive wars of which the country and world are in disagreement make us a more safe nation?
    so we should double check our actions with the world? A world which contains isolationists, pacifists, double-crossers who seek to reduce or destroy our country,, and allies, supporters, and proxies to the very despots and tyrants we wish to depose? You think all these people have OUR best interests in mind or even the best interests of the world in mind?

    HA!

    Are our enemies enthralled with the fact that it is now much easier to kill Americans with our increased middle east presence?
    What is your solution to these people who are obsessed with killing Americans? Hide at home and hope they can't find ways to attack us even though they have repeatedly proven they can?
    If you believe in the Supernatural then you can become a millionaire!

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    Re: What GOP Leaders deem wasteful in Senate stimulus bill

    Quote Originally Posted by scourge99 View Post
    You missed the point. We know Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11 and no one has said otherwise, though many try to twist the words of Bush to say that he did. 9/11 was yet another example of IRREFUTABLE proof that isolationist policies are doomed to failure. That simply sitting apathetic to the despots and tyrants of the world WILL catch up with you and the costs of such apathy can be extraordinarily high even when you are the most powerful and strongest in the world by far. That is the lesson of 9/11.
    I was responding to TD's speech about 911.

    Eliminating Saddam and helping Iraqis create a democracy is taking a proactive stance to combating tyrants and despots who are either foreseeable threats or contribute to foreseeable threats.
    Remember this guy:YouTube - The George Bush You Forgot

    We didn't go there to conquor or control or to steal or to colonize. We went there to plant the seeds of freedom and democracy to create a better tomorrow for both us and the Iraqis and hopefully the entire region. Such traumatizing change does not come cheap. Nor will it ever. Is it a price you are willing to pay to secure a better future or shall we wallow, apathetic in the chaos and pray that it magically works itself out?
    That line of thinking is borderline unconstitutional...

    But are we safer than we would be now and in the future if we left Saddam in power?
    Arbitrary at best. We have lost more American lives from terror attacks since Saddam was dethroned...

    so we should double check our actions with the world? A world which contains isolationists, pacifists, double-crossers who seek to reduce or destroy our country,, and allies, supporters, and proxies to the very despots and tyrants we wish to depose? You think all these people have OUR best interests in mind or even the best interests of the world in mind?

    HA!
    We freaking lied. The reasons for invasion were imaginary. Would the American people have supported the invasion if they knew the Colon Powell speech was a fraud?

    Remember this?

    What is your solution to these people who are obsessed with killing Americans? Hide at home and hope they can't find ways to attack us even though they have repeatedly proven they can?
    Build up a national defense. In case you have forgotten, our borders are still unsecured.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: What GOP Leaders deem wasteful in Senate stimulus bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    So, you were referring to the War on Terror, in its entirety, over 16 years.
    The total cost of the Iraq war is in line with about $1 trillion minus repayment...
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: What GOP Leaders deem wasteful in Senate stimulus bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    The total cost of the Iraq war is in line with about $1 trillion minus repayment...
    You posted:

    total spending for U.S. operations in Iraq and Afghanistan and other activities related to the war on terrorism would amount to between $1.2 trillion and $1.7trillion for fiscal years 2001 through 2017
    So, that's $1.7T over 16 years for the entire war on terror, including Iraq.

    This does -not- support your claim that "The total cost of the Iraq war is in line with about $1 trillion minus repayment." -- in fact, it rather refutes it.

    Thus, I ask again:
    What war has cost $1T?

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    Re: What GOP Leaders deem wasteful in Senate stimulus bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    You posted:


    So, that's $1.7T over 16 years for the entire war on terror, including Iraq.

    This does -not- support your claim that "The total cost of the Iraq war is in line with about $1 trillion minus repayment." -- in fact, it rather refutes it.

    Thus, I ask again:
    What war has cost $1T?

    Since the war in Afghanistan cost a tiny fraciton of the total, the Iraq adventure has sucked up at least 1 trillion of that 1.7 trillion. You have your answer, whether you like it or not.

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