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Thread: What GOP Leaders deem wasteful in Senate stimulus bill

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    Re: What GOP Leaders deem wasteful in Senate stimulus bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Because in general it takes a long time to plan and excute a successful terrorist attack in the U.S. This is true now, and it was true previously. There were 8 years from 1993's WTC bombing to 2001's 9/11 without any terrorist attack in the U.S., yet I would hardly say that Clinton's terrorist policies made us safer or caused it.

    Simply pointing to the years without an attack as evidence is a faulty, illogical argument.
    They're probably waiting on a stimulus package to help them out.
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    Re: What GOP Leaders deem wasteful in Senate stimulus bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Because in general it takes a long time to plan and excute a successful terrorist attack in the U.S. This is true now, and it was true previously.
    Sure. But that's not the -only- perfectly reasonable reason.

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    Re: What GOP Leaders deem wasteful in Senate stimulus bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Sure. But that's not the -only- perfectly reasonable reason.
    Oh, I agree, there are numerous potential reasons.

    What I'm saying is that siting a bunch of years without an attack as evidence in any way that we're doing something right, that the Iraq War worked, or anything of the sort is simply logically flawed unless you would simultaneously says that everything Clinton did against terrorism ALSO worked because we didn't have an attack in the U.S. for 8 years with him either.

    I believe security measures we have done, most especially removing the "Wall" that was between agencies and portions of the government sharing information, has helped substantially. I don't think the Iraq War has really done much to make terrorist attacks less likely on this country and its assets, as even though we're "fighting them over there" they HAVE attempted to do things over here that have simply been thwarted.

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    Re: What GOP Leaders deem wasteful in Senate stimulus bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Oh, I agree, there are numerous potential reasons.

    What I'm saying is that siting a bunch of years without an attack as evidence in any way that we're doing something right, that the Iraq War worked, or anything of the sort is simply logically flawed unless would simultaneously says that everything Clinton did against terrorism ALSO worked because we didn't have an attack in the U.S. for 8 years with him either.
    The Bush administration stopped some attacks before they got off the ground through improved intelligence.
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    Re: What GOP Leaders deem wasteful in Senate stimulus bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Oh, I agree, there are numerous potential reasons.
    Yes. -Numerous- potential reasons.

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    Re: What GOP Leaders deem wasteful in Senate stimulus bill

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    The Bush administration stopped some attacks before they got off the ground through improved intelligence.
    One of which was a planned attack on a Coilumbus OH mall, foled by the FBI.

    Its impossible to argue that direct efforts by the Bush admiistration is not at least part of the reason there hasn't been an attack since 9-11,

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    Re: What GOP Leaders deem wasteful in Senate stimulus bill

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    The Bush administration stopped some attacks before they got off the ground through improved intelligence.
    Hehe, caught me in an edit!

    Indeed, I'm not one to say what Bush has done has not helped add into that 8 years of no attacks in the U.S. I do think a lot of what we've done with improved intelligence and removal of barriers have helped greatly. And there's actual evidence that this has helped, not from propoganda that can't be proven if its legitimately what they think or not, but by ACTUAL attempts that have been thwarted.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Yes. -Numerous- potential reasons.
    Right, we're not disagreeing. So I'll ask, more simply this time, what does "8 years without an attack" prove by itself?

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    Re: What GOP Leaders deem wasteful in Senate stimulus bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    One of which was a planned attack on a Coilumbus OH mall, foled by the FBI.

    Its impossible to argue that direct efforts by the Bush admiistration is not at least part of the reason there hasn't been an attack since 9-11,
    I agree completely, it is impossible to argue that when presented with facts that actually matter.

    My issue is with the fact of "we haven't been attack in 8 years". That's not a relevant fact that proves anything other than we haven't been attacked. That doesn't prove its due to Bush's policies, doesn't prove its due to the Iraq war, doesn't prove it has anything to do with anything we've done. If it DID prove those things, then it'd also have to prove that everything Clinton did with terrorism ALSO worked because we also weren't attacked in the U.S. for 8 years under him. And I'd hardly say that's the case with Clinton.

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    Re: What GOP Leaders deem wasteful in Senate stimulus bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Right, we're not disagreeing. So I'll ask, more simply this time, what does "8 years without an attack" prove by itself?
    Alone? Nothing.

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    Re: What GOP Leaders deem wasteful in Senate stimulus bill

    I think its a mix of things personally.

    I think terrorist attacks, especially ones that are successful, take a long time to plan and execute. They're generally many months to years in the making in regards to planning to practice to pulling it off. Even then, many likely end up never getting fully off the ground. On top of that we have had better communication between our intelligence branches to better find such plots. Along with this we have better laws regarding internet and other technological communication that previously were more difficult to monitor. Finally, there's an over all greater focus, both in government and in the public, with terrorism making it likely more difficult to pull off than the atmosphere present in the past.

    I think Afghanistan, and removing one of the larger groups main base of operations for a time, helped greatly to this. I believe Iraq has a negligable affect, possibly diverting some attention while at the same time giving them additional propoganda and fuel to recruit. All the while, essentially doing a one sided version of our russian cold war strategy against us, forcing us to spend huge amounts of money that in part is likely adding to this economic down turn on us.

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