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Thread: Obama preserves renditions as counter-terrorism tool

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    Re: Obama shuts Gitmo but expands renditions

    Quote Originally Posted by Binary_Digit View Post
    Renditions themselves are not illegal. Renditions to countries where there is reasonable suspicion that the person will be tortured (Egypt, Syria) is. So it looks to me like Obama is being pragmatic by not doing away with renditions altogether, and he's doing the right thing by making sure renditions don't violate U.S. and international law.

    It's good to have an intelligent person at the helm again.
    So he doesn't know yet whether they violate law or not, meaning that charges by the left during the campaign, that Bush was sending prisoners off to secret prisons for interrogation illegally, are unsubstantiated.
    Last edited by American; 02-02-09 at 05:58 PM.
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    Re: Obama shuts Gitmo but expands renditions

    Quote Originally Posted by Binary_Digit View Post
    Renditions themselves are not illegal. Renditions to countries where there is reasonable suspicion that the person will be tortured (Egypt, Syria) is. So it looks to me like Obama is being pragmatic by not doing away with renditions altogether, and he's doing the right thing by making sure renditions don't violate U.S. and international law.
    I get it now!
    When Bush does it, its unconstitutional and impeachable; when The Secular Messiah does it, its 'pragmatic'.
    Silly me for not seeing this before.

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    Re: Obama shuts Gitmo but expands renditions

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    Standard, judicial renditions are not at issue here. You're equivocating.
    No, I'm not. Read the very next sentence after the one you quoted. Actually I'm pointing out the difference. Which is exactly the opposite of equivocating, TYVM.

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    So he doesn't know yet whether they violate law or not, meaning that charges by the left during the campaign, that Bush was sending prisoners off to secret prisons for interrogation illegally, are unsubstantiated.
    I wouldn't say they are "unsubstantiated" considering we have renditioned people to Egypt and Syria. Some of those people who turned out to be innocent (software engineer from Canada, for one) came back from those countries with tales of torture. Bush should be innocent until proven guilty, but there is reasonable grounds for suspicion and that's why I support Obama's task force to get to the bottom of things.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    I get it now!
    When Bush does it, its unconstitutional and impeachable; when The Secular Messiah does it, its 'pragmatic'.
    Silly me for not seeing this before.
    What a ridiculous attempt at spinning my argument into something it's not.

    If Obama allows renditions that violate international torture laws to continue, that would be impeachable. Until then, Obama is innocent until proven guilty too, so I'll wait for this task force to finish their work and present Obama with their findings before I start calling for his head.

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    Re: Obama shuts Gitmo but expands renditions

    Quote Originally Posted by Binary_Digit View Post
    No, I'm not. Read the very next sentence after the one you quoted. Actually I'm pointing out the difference. Which is exactly the opposite of equivocating, TYVM.
    OK.

    Current and former U.S. intelligence officials said that the rendition program might be poised to play an expanded role going forward because it was the main remaining mechanism -- aside from Predator missile strikes -- for taking suspected terrorists off the street.
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    Re: Obama shuts Gitmo but expands renditions

    Rendition is used to give someone with tons of violations from a different jurisdiction back. Not scooping up possible suspects.
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    Re: Obama shuts Gitmo but expands renditions

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    I get it now!
    When Bush does it, its unconstitutional and impeachable; when The Secular Messiah does it, its 'pragmatic'.
    Silly me for not seeing this before.
    You are slow, aren't you. Obama HAS NOT YET ADDRESSED THE ISSUE OF RENDITION.

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    Re: Obama shuts Gitmo but expands renditions

    Quote Originally Posted by WillRockwell View Post
    You are slow, aren't you. Obama HAS NOT YET ADDRESSED THE ISSUE OF RENDITION.
    "Obviously you need to preserve some tools -- you still have to go after the bad guys," said an Obama administration official, speaking on condition of anonymity when discussing the legal reasoning. "The legal advisors working on this looked at rendition. It is controversial in some circles and kicked up a big storm in Europe. But if done within certain parameters, it is an acceptable practice."
    As I said . . .

    What's to review? If (non-judicial) rendition in and of itself is an evil, what's there to discuss or address?
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    Re: Obama shuts Gitmo but expands renditions

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    As I said . . .

    What's to review? If (non-judicial) rendition in and of itself is an evil, what's there to discuss or address?
    My apologies. I read the actual Executive Orders and did not see the quote referenced from an administration official.

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    Re: Obama shuts Gitmo but expands renditions

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    Current and former U.S. intelligence officials said that the rendition program might be poised to play an expanded role going forward because it was the main remaining mechanism -- aside from Predator missile strikes -- for taking suspected terrorists off the street.
    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    "Obviously you need to preserve some tools -- you still have to go after the bad guys," said an Obama administration official, speaking on condition of anonymity when discussing the legal reasoning. "The legal advisors working on this looked at rendition. It is controversial in some circles and kicked up a big storm in Europe. But if done within certain parameters, it is an acceptable practice."
    What's to review? If (non-judicial) rendition in and of itself is an evil, what's there to discuss or address?
    This is why I tried to point out the difference between rendition (extraordinary or not) and rendition to countries where there are reasonable grounds to suspect the person will be tortured (extraordinary or not), in violation of international laws and treaties.

    Obama needs to review the U.S. rendition process, and do away with renditioning people to countries where there are reasonable grounds to suspect that the person might be tortured. To bring the U.S. into accordance with the treaties we have ratified, and to avoid the calls for impeachment that Bush recieved for violating those treaty obligations.

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    Re: Obama shuts Gitmo but expands renditions

    Quote Originally Posted by Binary_Digit View Post
    This is why I tried to point out the difference between rendition (extraordinary or not) and rendition to countries where there are reasonable grounds to suspect the person will be tortured (extraordinary or not), in violation of international laws and treaties.
    That's not what you were talking about. And if it was, you did not at all make it clear.
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