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Thread: Iran says Obama's offer to talk shows US failure

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    Re: Iran says Obama's offer to talk shows US failure

    Quote Originally Posted by Slainte View Post
    Iran increased its influence in Iraq, Lebanon and Palestine and refused any major concessions on their nuclear project.

    In fact it was only after the US started cooperating with the Iranians in Iraq that the situation started to improve there.

    I'm not sure what you mean by a stalemate.
    As far as talks to denuclearize Iran.

    Also the idea that "military actions against Iran" was never off the table, shows that there was more of a moderate approach from the Bush admin, then could be taken.
    "I do not underestimate the ability of fanatical groups of terrorists to kill and destroy, but they do not threaten the life of the nation. Whether we would survive Hitler hung in the balance, but there is no doubt that we shall survive al-Qa'ida." -- Lord Hoffmann

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    Re: Iran says Obama's offer to talk shows US failure

    Quote Originally Posted by Arch Enemy View Post
    As far as talks to denuclearize Iran.
    Iran has never actually claimed to be persuing nuclear weapons, so the fact that they still don't claim to be doing so isn't really a US victory. Iran has insisted on its right to independently develop nuclear power, this is something they still insist on and they still refuse to allow the US to stick its nose in.


    Also the idea that "military actions against Iran" was never off the table, shows that there was more of a moderate approach from the Bush admin, then could be taken.
    US military action against Iran became extremely unlikely after the US got into such a mess in Iraq. The fact that Bush never "ruled it out" just showed that he was unwilling to take any steps that could lead to reconcilliation with Iran, not that they believed it was a viable strategy.
    We all live under the same sky, but we don't all have the same horizon

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    Re: Iran says Obama's offer to talk shows US failure

    Quote Originally Posted by Slainte View Post
    Iran has never actually claimed to be persuing nuclear weapons, so the fact that they still don't claim to be doing so isn't really a US victory. Iran has insisted on its right to independently develop nuclear power, this is something they still insist on and they still refuse to allow the US to stick its nose in.
    I am agreeing with you on that. I believe that there was a stalemate as neither side really had a victory.


    US military action against Iran became extremely unlikely after the US got into such a mess in Iraq. The fact that Bush never "ruled it out" just showed that he was unwilling to take any steps that could lead to reconcilliation with Iran, not that they believed it was a viable strategy.
    Whether it was plausible or not is not the issue. The fact that there was the possibility, and that the Bush admin never struck it down was a sign of hawking. I am merely measuring what happened and what was said could have happened.
    "I do not underestimate the ability of fanatical groups of terrorists to kill and destroy, but they do not threaten the life of the nation. Whether we would survive Hitler hung in the balance, but there is no doubt that we shall survive al-Qa'ida." -- Lord Hoffmann

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    Re: Iran says Obama's offer to talk shows US failure

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    it's alright. avoid the point.


    THERE CAN ONLY BE ONE!
    What point? That I don't participate in every Iran thread. I don't even know who the Iran apologists are.
    Quote Originally Posted by faithful_servant View Post
    Being a psychiatric patient does not mean that you are mentally ill.



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    Re: Iran says Obama's offer to talk shows US failure

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    President Obama offering to talk is a much better method than the Republican method of bomb first, questions later.
    Perhaps you could educate us with examples of this bomb first, questions later policy. I recall that we talked to Afghanistan and Iraq before we engaged in bombing, and to the best of my recollection I don't recall an instance of us bombing Iran before we talked to them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    The President has barely been in for a month and people are diving at him. I think his method will work very well in the Muslim world
    No, it wont. I travel to the region quite frequently and it's not America hatred that is the driving force of dysfunction in the region, for many of these protesters would actually jump at the chance to immigrate to America. It's a sense of injustice at the inadequacy that these folks feel about their cultures and nations on the world stage. They feel that they deserve more respect than they are given and the higher the education level of the protester the greater are the odds that they are more aggrieved.

    The thing of it is though, respect is not simply given to placate a country, it must be earned. The Middle East and North Africa are, excluding oil exports, economic basketcases that rival the dysfunction that characterizes their political culture. The rest of the world has little to grab onto in order to offer even the appearance of respect. Look, the economies of South Korea, Thailand, Singapore were all much poorer than those of Iraq and Iran back in 1950-60 and look at them today where they far surpass the performance seen by Iran. The rest of the world progresses, Iran stays mired in stasis.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arch Enemy View Post
    A racist is a racist.

    There is no sugar-coating racism.
    Exactly. More racists voted for Obama than against him. The entire Democratic Party platform is premised on racist notions. Democrats would have very few policies if they had to strip out the ones based on racist platforms.

    Quote Originally Posted by Slainte View Post
    The previous approach towards Iran by the Bush administartion was a failure. Iran grew relatively stronger and the region became more unstable because of US-Iranian tension.
    When the issue of Iranian nukes first surfaced, the EU was criticizing the American Hard Power Approach and boldly stated that their Soft Power Approach would work wonders. The US apparently gave them enough rope to hang themselves with for after every EU press release about the gains made by the soft power approach the Iranians simply violated the terms after having reaped the gains from the inducements offered. The US approach got Quaddafi to renounce his nuclear ambitions and to seek normalization of affairs with the US and not a bomb was dropped on Libya. Boy, was the EU pissed at that turn of events.

    You err in arguing that the US approach was a failure for the EU approach was even less successful. If Obama adopts the liberal approach, which mimics the EU position, then we shouldn't expect a different outcome. If you get a headache after hitting yourself in the head with a hammer, then you should stop hitting your head with a hammer. Simply switching to a different hammer isn't going to cure you of your headache. The US adopting a failed EU approach isn't going to change the Iranian reaction.

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmer View Post
    After 911 the Democrats were desperate to show they weren't weaklings when it came to national defense.
    Actually, this began even before 9/11. If you look at the transcripts of the Bush-Gore debates you see that Bush was reticent about the use of military power for nation building and had a more isolationist tone, though not an isolationist policy in pure form, than Gore, who was gung-ho about using our military to intervene internationally.

    Now we have an absolute rookie running the country who foolishly thinks speaking with these sorts will accomplish something positive. Lasting. Substantive. Obama offers a hand, they kick him in the balls. It's how they work. Obama must possess a level of arrogance to think His presence will change the dynamics on the ground with these morons.
    Intellectuals often become enamored of their own brilliance and make the mistake that their negotiating partner can be reasoned with and will honor the agreements made. Run the film on the Keystone Kops affair in Bosnia where Clinton was negotiating with Milosevic and then Milosevic would honor the agreement for only as long as it suited him and then would abandon it, only to have the US come back to the table and renegotiate a new agreement which Milosevic would agree to in order to gain momentary tactical advantage. The US was treating the negotiations as though the other party was honorable and could be counted on to live up to their commitments. Milosevic was treating the negotiations as tactical props - he'd agree so long as it suited him and not for a moment longer and he never felt bound by a treaty.

    This same Clintonesque mentality infects Obama and his crowd.

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    Re: Iran says Obama's offer to talk shows US failure

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    What

    .......
    Your ultra liberal leanings....Thats all. Born and raised in Dayton Ohio will leave the average NON-Lib with a few sharp edges ,as you just saw. "Test..." We may end up haveing to test the worlds tolerance of a counter NUKE strike against these frigin TERRORISTS.You think its test time ? F**K them and their camels. The have tested and failed at being acceptable to the human race. I hate Iran and any liberal who thinks we need to pass the Muslim worlds tests. My most humble HALF appologies to you,but I detected liberal whine ,and it just made me sick of my former home town. Obama has failed all testing in his first two weeks in office. This ain`t lookin to good.

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    Re: Iran says Obama's offer to talk shows US failure

    I didnt realize that the Iranians hated capitalism but they werent fond of Socialism and Communism either.
    Jackboots always come in matched pairs, a left boot and a right boot.

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    Re: Iran says Obama's offer to talk shows US failure

    As has been stated Obama has not even been in office for a month and really already he has surprised many with his performance so far in the sense that he has not truly become the ultra liberal pacifist that everybody thought he would be. I would like to think that Obama is perfectly aware of who and what Iran is all about. The offer of talks maybe only because he knows that they will either refuse or they will renege on any agreement that may be reached just as they have done in the past. Obama needs to rebuild our image as a nation that is willing to negotiate first and take action second rather than the image of our way or the hi way that the last 8 years has produced.

    I will not say that I do not have my worries or reservations about Obama because I do. Obama does not appear to be the great author of change that he tried advertise himself as during the campaign. In fact it really appears that the next four years are going to be business as usual in DC but with a democratic president rather than a republican. He seems to be more of a people pleaser in the sense that what ever group he is speaking to he tells them just what they want to hear regardless of what he just said yesterday to the last group he spoke to. I do hope that Obama is building a strategy that will give us legitimacy when we have to confront Iran at a later date.

    Which I absolutely believe is inevitable.

    Moe

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    Re: Iran says Obama's offer to talk shows US failure

    Exactly. More racists voted for Obama than against him. The entire Democratic Party platform is premised on racist notions. Democrats would have very few policies if they had to strip out the ones based on racist platforms.
    any proof of that statement?
    "I do not underestimate the ability of fanatical groups of terrorists to kill and destroy, but they do not threaten the life of the nation. Whether we would survive Hitler hung in the balance, but there is no doubt that we shall survive al-Qa'ida." -- Lord Hoffmann

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    Re: Iran says Obama's offer to talk shows US failure

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    So, let me get this straight, it's better to be seen as civilized by EU Countries, and seen as weak by countries like Iran and those that share their view, instead of feared by said countries and not liked by the EU.

    Got it.
    Whats the deal with you and your militarism? Perhaps it was better when everyone feared but disliked the NAZIs rather than when they liked them in the beginning but didn't fear them?

    Is that the right train of thought for you?

    Its not about being feared, its about being smart and respected and have the cock to show for it. Not about being some fat stupid bully that people should fear. Imagine the other guy kicking that fat bully's arse because he knows all kind of martial arts without the fat dumb bully knowing that.
    Europe is illegally occupied by the US

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