"He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
"Fly-over" country spoke, and The Donald is now POTUS.
I would like to make some further points:
1) At this point, I will assert that Israel IS a Zionist state. I will also assert that there is nothing wrong with a Zionist state, and I fully support a Zionist state for the Jewish people. It is only Israel's enemies that have somewhat successfuly redefined the meaning of Zionism as something negative, when Zionism is actually something positive - A Jewish homeland. Those who have promised to destroy Israel have managed to pervert the concept of Zionism by running a campaign of misinformation.
2) If Israel had only annexed the territory in captured in the 1967 war, I don't believe that there would be much of a problem today. There is nothing wrong with taking spoils of war when you are the nation that others attempted to exterminate.
3) Israel should get its own house in order, and then, if provoked, I would be in favor of massive retaliation to teach its enemies that, for each Israeli killed, 100 or more of its enemies will die.
4) However, the concept of breaking cease fires is a two way street. Israel cannot have its cake and eat it too. Somewhere, the Israeli people need to show the world that it IS dedicated to peace.
5) In response to argument 4), people are only human, and that is the 800 pound gorilla in the room. Israel should put settlers in jail, and hand out harsh sentences to them, if they attack Palestinians in their own homes, and drive them off their land.
6) But, if Palestinians are using their land to support attacks on Israelis, then Israel should just take the land, and kill the offenders.
Damn. Look at me. I am debating myself. Who is going to win this debate? Me or me? Vote now.
Seriously, though, this is some really complicated stuff here. There are violations on both sides, but when you consider the history of how Israel's enemies have promised to eliminate the state of Israel, I have no choice but to be on the side of Israel, even if some of its own citizens are complicit in crimes against Palestinians. After all, Palestinian crimes against Israel are orders of magnitude greater. I only wish that Israel's citizens would not harden their hearts so much, and wish so much violence against those Palestinians who only want to live their lives in peace. But I understand if they do. Does not make hardened hearts right, though. I only said that I understand, but since I do not live in the area, then maybe I understand less than I believe I do.
To Tashah - God bless.
Last edited by danarhea; 02-01-09 at 09:47 AM.
The ghost of Jack Kevorkian for President's Physician: 2016
It is quite obvious that certain members of this forum have a bias towards Israel. They will allways regardless of the circumstances take the side of Israels enemies.
Of course it was Hamas.
When America is strong the world is calm, When America is weak tyrants and terrorist slaughter the meek. ~ SgtRock
Maybe the occupiers in Iraq should topple the government, you know, because of all of those IED's for which they're responsible...As the government of Gaza, Hamas IS responsible for its territory and citizens.
Who the hell else could be responsible?
How are the citizens responsible for their government? I know I had absolutely nothing to do with Britain going to Iraq.