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Thread: US Army suicides hit record high

  1. #131
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    Re: US Army suicides hit record high

    Quote Originally Posted by WillRockwell View Post
    Denial of post traumatic stress disorder shows disrespect for the military and the true cost of their service. These men and women have had too much asked of them, and deserve all the support we can provide.

    Find some perspective.....

    1) They were "asked" to do exactly what they came in for. They were "asked" to do their jobs. Nothing has been too much. Most WWII Vets went to war and didn't come back unless they were wounded or the war was over. And seeing as how most veterans of the "War on Terrorism" enlisted after 9/11, combat should not be the last thing they expected when they signed. Especially a soldier or a Marine.

    2) Most Post Traumatic Stress is extremely temporary and is mostly grounded in a sense that nothing matters. The extreme actions of combat can leave a "soldier" with a sense that holding a job in the US is simply boring or unimportant. Even something as simple as comparing combat action and your kids report card is a hard thing to balance. Most troops find their way through this on their own or with local support on the base.

    3) The fact is that most of these suicides are a result of coming home to find their world wrecked by those they trusted most.

    There is also another less talked about side to this PTSD. Adrenaline junkies have a hard time settling down and seek dangerous things to pre-occupy himself. This isn't based in depression, but thrill seeking to re-capture that feeling of invulnerability and rush. There is a reason motorcycle accidents have been on the rise.

    Tacking on "PTSD" everytime a soldier gets sad, or suffers a paper cut, or commits suicide, trivializes those who truly suffer from this disorder.
    Last edited by MSgt; 02-03-09 at 09:50 PM.

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  2. #132
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    Re: US Army suicides hit record high

    Quote Originally Posted by RightOfCenter View Post
    I'm pretty sure Gunny's been in the USMC longer than I've been alive.
    Not unless you are 17.

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  3. #133
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    Re: US Army suicides hit record high

    Quote Originally Posted by GySgt View Post
    Not unless you are 17.
    21. Which is pretty close.
    Quote Originally Posted by SWM
    I never thought infanticide could be so delicious.

  4. #134
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    Re: US Army suicides hit record high

    I know quite a few people who collect money for PTSD from the Viet Nam War,I would say that 60%, never heard a shot fired in the war,mostly Navy and Air Force people and collect full disability from a B.S.story.I always thought it was a bunch of B.S.
    About 15 yrs ago my wife,kept bugging me to talk to the V.A. about PTSD and I kept playing it off.My life had been overdrive all the time,just a wild and crazy guy,anything on the edge,the adrenaline rush,trying to recapture that old feeling of a fire fight.Fast bikes, fast cars,always packen heat.
    Finally read a brochure on PTSD and about 90% of the symptoms I could relate to, in the way i lived.
    Life is an adventure.

  5. #135
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    Re: US Army suicides hit record high

    Quote Originally Posted by rudedog View Post
    I know quite a few people who collect money for PTSD from the Viet Nam War,I would say that 60%, never heard a shot fired in the war,mostly Navy and Air Force people and collect full disability from a B.S.story.I always thought it was a bunch of B.S.
    About 15 yrs ago my wife,kept bugging me to talk to the V.A. about PTSD and I kept playing it off.My life had been overdrive all the time,just a wild and crazy guy,anything on the edge,the adrenaline rush,trying to recapture that old feeling of a fire fight.Fast bikes, fast cars,always packen heat.
    Finally read a brochure on PTSD and about 90% of the symptoms I could relate to, in the way i lived.
    Life is an adventure.
    Exactly so. People hear PTSD and assume that this means the "soldier" is two steps away from slicing his wrists. Some "soldiers" use it to explain away their personal failures in life rather than take responsibility for them.

    The fact is that the vast majority who come home, with the feeling that everyday issues of a civilian's life are mundane and unimportant, fit back into the role of husband and father in quick enough order. Most PTSD is a matter of stumbling until you can get your head straight. The nightmares begin to slow and dissolve. Everyday issues at home start finding their way back into priority.

    When I see stories in the media about a guy who can't hold a job or can't be a good husband (while wearing military attire to enforce the idea that he can't let go, of course), I get angry. There are guys that really suffer from this and couldn't post-handle the experiences demanded of them. The rest make a mockery and use it as an excuse.

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    Re: US Army suicides hit record high

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    Two reasons.


    1. That it was factually lacking. I simply asked for clarification. As her explaination did not follow how it usually goes. All she had to say was "yeah waiver". The fact that she dodged that and almost sent me his name is a clue.

    2. To show that there was much more to the proccess than a judges order. I showed you the relevant regulation, and stated that a waiver would be required after the case is settled.



    Oh and I really do not care. this is a discussion board. I had info, I argued it.



    I hope he does well in the Army. Though I am still curious why if "he did not want to go" but had a choice of branches, he chose the Army....

    Someone can`t face reality here.... Rev, you did fine.

  7. #137
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    Re: US Army suicides hit record high

    I'm late getting in on this but I will just add my two cents.

    I know for a fact that military enlistment for convicted criminals is legal, despite military regulations, because we worked with the recruiters to get several teens enlisted as alternatives to punishment. While technically not forcing anyone to join, it is giving them a choice that is hard to refuse. Incarceration and a permanent criminal record or a clean slate in return for enlistment and service. The judge holding jurisdiction facilitates the deal by issuing a deferment. There is NO CRIMINL RECORD when a deferment is issued and all the military has to verify is that the deferment is in effect. No conviction, no problem. If the enlistee fails to report or successfully complete his or her service in accordance with the deal struck by the prosecutor and the defense, then the charges are reinstated and prosecution commences. In my former career we did this at least a dozen or more times that I know of personally.

    And I'm sick to death that this bull**** has prompted 10 to leave the site. Damnit all.

    *insert profound statement here*

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    Re: US Army suicides hit record high

    Quote Originally Posted by Rodney View Post
    Someone can`t face reality here.... Rev, you did fine.
    I disagree with you completely. She is absolutely facing reality, she's living reality. Whether or not she got the technical process right is irrelevant. I think it was pretty clear where the whole "judges order" thing and the "choice" her kid was given collided. Continually picking at her given the personal strain she was under worrying about her son's future was not in any way forcing her to deal with "reality."

    Rev only got part of it right, he just posted information he knew and applied to a situation he knew little about. He continually picked and picked at her even after she said she wasn't divulging any more info on the situation. CC backed up her story and I have personal, recent experience in similar situations. A waiver can be obtained to join the service even if you have a conviction. I can't recall the federal regulation that authorizes this, but the long and short of it is that even if you have a felony, the Army can review the case and request a waiver based upon the Secretary of Defense's current guidance for accepting waivers for enlistment.

    In this case her son could have gotten a waiver approved and gotten a deferment that allowed him to enlist. It's extremely plausible. While he still has to tell them about everything (expunged, deferred, "sealed", or otherwise) technically the deferment helps the recruiter and him get a waiver to enlist.

    Bottom line, according to the Army, you can in fact enlist with a felony conviction.


    Army.com Frequently Asked Questions: Can I Join the Army with a Felony?
    *insert profound statement here*

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    Re: US Army suicides hit record high

    Quote Originally Posted by Lerxst View Post
    I disagree with you completely. She is absolutely facing reality, she's living reality. Whether or not she got the technical process right is irrelevant. I think it was pretty clear where the whole "judges order" thing and the "choice" her kid was given collided. Continually picking at her given the personal strain she was under worrying about her son's future was not in any way forcing her to deal with "reality."

    Rev only got part of it right, he just posted information he knew and applied to a situation he knew little about. He continually picked and picked at her even after she said she wasn't divulging any more info on the situation. CC backed up her story and I have personal, recent experience in similar situations. A waiver can be obtained to join the service even if you have a conviction. I can't recall the federal regulation that authorizes this, but the long and short of it is that even if you have a felony, the Army can review the case and request a waiver based upon the Secretary of Defense's current guidance for accepting waivers for enlistment.

    In this case her son could have gotten a waiver approved and gotten a deferment that allowed him to enlist. It's extremely plausible. While he still has to tell them about everything (expunged, deferred, "sealed", or otherwise) technically the deferment helps the recruiter and him get a waiver to enlist.

    Bottom line, according to the Army, you can in fact enlist with a felony conviction.


    Army.com Frequently Asked Questions: Can I Join the Army with a Felony?
    I really hesitated at say anything at all. I was a prison guard, and spent 4 years in the military. Her son is at risk.... Thats the reality. The military is a great opportunity for her son. I don`t think anyone is trying to harm him here. Its opportunity knocking. The judge , prosecutor, and whoever else came up with the idea of letting the kid grow up, did him a great service. Jail or prison seldom changes anyone for the better.

  10. #140
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    Re: US Army suicides hit record high

    Quote Originally Posted by Rodney View Post
    I really hesitated at say anything at all. I was a prison guard, and spent 4 years in the military. Her son is at risk.... Thats the reality.
    I agree. And I can tell that she realized this as well, hence her regret for talking about it once she thought someone might try to derail his chances at staying out of jail. Her reality is that her child has been in trouble, and now the system has hold of him. If you know Ten, I think the last thing she wanted was to have to watch her son make this decision...jail or military.
    The military is a great opportunity for her son.
    I went in to the military in the mid-80's as an "at risk" type individual (teenager, arrested for MIP, arrested for evading arrest, peace disturbance, assault). The military was a great opportunity for me to grow up. But not every parent or person for that matter views the military as a "great opportunity." In this case it sounds like a lesser of two evils from Ten's perspective. I could be wrong, but I think I'm close.
    I don`t think anyone is trying to harm him here.
    Neither do I. What I think is going on here is her son is in a bad spot of his own making and she is trying her best to deal with it. In my mind the military is the best option for this young man for many reasons, but nothing I can say here will help her reconcile that. She knows what is involved by this point and I think she has indicated she is behind her son 100%, she's just scared because it's out of her control.
    Its opportunity knocking. The judge , prosecutor, and whoever else came up with the idea of letting the kid grow up, did him a great service. Jail or prison seldom changes anyone for the better.
    I absolutely agree.
    Last edited by Lerxst; 02-07-09 at 10:41 PM.
    *insert profound statement here*

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