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Thread: US Army suicides hit record high

  1. #101
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    Re: US Army suicides hit record high

    Quote Originally Posted by RightOfCenter View Post
    10 you're absolutely right in this. The Rev is wrong. I'm not sure why he thinks it is so unusual for someone to get a waiver for a crime so as to enlist in the military. I personally know several people this has happened to.



    A waiver is not what she is claiming. I asked her about a waiver no less than 5 times. She claims that as a condition of her sones adjudication he MUST join a branch of service......


    this can not be,



    Army Regulation 601-210, paragraph 4-8b: "

    Applicant who, as a condition for any civil conviction or adverse disposition or any other reason through a civil or criminal court, is ordered or subjected to a sentence that implies or imposes enlistment into the Armed Forces of the United States is not eligible for enlistment.."
    You should try to remember, ideas are conveyed by researching information, vetting sources, and confirming said information. Not by regurgitating talking points given to you by your "news" station.
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  2. #102
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    Re: US Army suicides hit record high

    Quote Originally Posted by 1069 View Post
    Because then they could verify that what I say is true.
    There's a record of his arrest, of his charges being suspended, and of his joining the military, isn't there?
    The Cap'n's some kind of therapist for teens; he could access these records if he wanted to. And he would never do anything to hurt us, because he's ethical.



    I do not require any of that...


    1. was there a waiver.

    2. what does the court papers say. where in the court decision does it say military or jail.....



    thats it, no need for fear, no need for you to reveal names or nothing.....
    You should try to remember, ideas are conveyed by researching information, vetting sources, and confirming said information. Not by regurgitating talking points given to you by your "news" station.
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  3. #103
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    Re: US Army suicides hit record high

    Quote Originally Posted by Felicity View Post
    My brother had that--joined the Navy.

    They suspend the charges and then drop them. It's part of the bargaining to determine what he might be charged with--and then charges are never actually filed. At least that's how I understand it. It's not being "forced" it's giving them a choice.


    When?

    I know it happened years ago, this reg i think is fairly recent.
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  4. #104
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    Re: US Army suicides hit record high

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    I had forgotten that this was your 17-year-old. This makes your story even more credible. I've seen this many times. I believe that the terminology was not explained to you properly, which is the confusion. There is no doubt in my mind that you are telling the truth, here...and EVERYONE knows I am the first to go after liars...friend or foe.

    I do not need your personal information to confirm your story. This is how it would happen in NJ. Kid gets arrested. Kid goes to court. Kid gets PTI (pre-trial intervention). This intervention can be a variety of things...community service, military service, counseling, etc... If the kid agrees to this, and follows through with what the court "suggested", then, depending on the the charge, either his record would be expunged, or the consequences of the charge would be eliminated. I have a client, right now, that went through this process. He refused (idiot) and is now facing jail time.

    I would always be cautious about sharing personal information on the internet. I am precisely who and what I say I am, but having been involved in internet safety for 10+ years, it's always a little concerning. I do not need your information to confirm what you are saying is accurate, and I'm not sure I could find out anything else if I did.

    My suggestion is to let it go. What you say is accurate. Ignore those who do not believe you.

    And I also suggest that we end this publicly. No need for it to continue.




    this is different than what she claims...


    this all could have been settled, had she answered my general, non personal questions....


    Join the Military or Go to Jail?


    Army Regulation 601-210, paragraph 4-8b:

    "Applicant who, as a condition for any civil conviction or adverse disposition or any other reason through a civil or criminal court, is ordered or subjected to a sentence that implies or imposes enlistment into the Armed Forces of the United States is not eligible for enlistment.."



    Expungend means he is good to go. I do not understand the judicial ruling of "eliminated".... do you mean "dropped"?

    Are the kids you deal with "depped" until either of these two happen, or are you suggesting the Army is taking people with active charges?



    Are you saying the rules are ignores, or is there more to your story?

    When I joined I got a speeding ticket. I had to go to court to settle it before i went to basic....
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  5. #105
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    Re: US Army suicides hit record high

    Quote Originally Posted by 1069 View Post
    Because the alternative was going to jail.
    It is exactly as I've stated.
    And yes, apparently it happens fairly routinely.
    I will not post further details of his situation on the public board; most of my forum friends are already aware of the situation, as it's something I've been dealing with since mid-December.

    As I've stated, if proof is needed, I will give his personal information to the Cap'n or someone I can trust, and they can verify it for you.

    Repeating over and over that it sounds fishy is pointless.
    It happened. It's happening now. I can prove it.
    You don't have to "prove it", because such deals are found around the world as well. My brother in law in Europe also had the same deal when in order to avoid jail the judge gave him the choice to enroll in the army.

    This kind of deals is optional by the judge, this is to say, that the judge can offer such choice if he wants to. The individual can decide between time in jail or service in the army. This is the same that to decide between jail or community service, but apparently the judge saw in my brother in love that he really needed some discipline but that he didn't have criminal tendencies either, so the army was the best option on the table.

    I think that we must need to go back to the old style of recruiting troops and send the prisoners to the front lines in a war, if they survive they can short their years of prison, if they die then they did it servicing the nation with honor. Plus, no psychiatric help should be needed for them later on, but on the contrary, this step should be avoided because the risk of the psychiatrist to be killed by the inmate...
    Last edited by conquer; 02-02-09 at 11:48 AM.

  6. #106
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    Re: US Army suicides hit record high

    Conquer,


    Army Regulation 601-210, paragraph 4-8b:


    "Applicant who, as a condition for any civil conviction or adverse disposition or any other reason through a civil or criminal court, is ordered or subjected to a sentence that implies or imposes enlistment into the Armed Forces of the United States is not eligible for enlistment.."



    Please comment.
    You should try to remember, ideas are conveyed by researching information, vetting sources, and confirming said information. Not by regurgitating talking points given to you by your "news" station.
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    Re: US Army suicides hit record high

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    Conquer,


    Army Regulation 601-210, paragraph 4-8b:


    "Applicant who, as a condition for any civil conviction or adverse disposition or any other reason through a civil or criminal court, is ordered or subjected to a sentence that implies or imposes enlistment into the Armed Forces of the United States is not eligible for enlistment.."



    Please comment.
    One thing is to be "ordered to enroll in the army" and a complete different scenario is to hear from the judge "the option to enroll in the army instead of receiving a punishment like jail."

    Remember that the individual "has not been convicted yet", and that the judge is just offering the choice.

  8. #108
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    Re: US Army suicides hit record high

    "adverse disposition or any other reason through a civil or criminal court,"



    please reconcile.
    You should try to remember, ideas are conveyed by researching information, vetting sources, and confirming said information. Not by regurgitating talking points given to you by your "news" station.
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    Re: US Army suicides hit record high

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    "adverse disposition or any other reason through a civil or criminal court,"



    please reconcile.
    I should like to do so but I can't, because even judges brake the law.

    Of course that Europe has different laws, but in the case of my relative, his father started the deal by giving an expensive gold pen as a gift from his wife to the judge. When it came his son's case turn, the judge listened the case and gave him the choice between jail and the army. The son didn't say anything but his father chose the army for many reasons and the main one was to avoid criminal records for his son.

    I have no idea if the army is capable to investigate every similar case in US and around the world, but I agree with 10 that such indeed happens, and if 10 was joking then I am not because I saw my brother in law servicing in the navy of his country right after his case in court. His service in the navy lasted two years, and he has no criminal records as far as I know.
    Last edited by conquer; 02-02-09 at 12:02 PM.

  10. #110
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    Re: US Army suicides hit record high

    Quote Originally Posted by conquer View Post
    I should like to do so but I can't, because even judges brake the law.

    I will concede this. I will also state there must be a lie on the part of the court system, that is therefore null and void.


    Of course that Europe has different laws, but in the case of my relative, his father started the deal by giving an expensive gold pen as a gift from his wife to the judge. When it came his son's case turn, the judge listened the case and gave him the choice between jail and the army. The son didn't say anything but his father chose the army for many reasons and the main one was to avoid criminal records for his son.

    I have no idea if the army is capable to investigate every similar case in US and around the world, but I agree with 10 that such indeed happens, and if 10 was joking then I am not because I saw my brother in law servicing in the navy of his country right after his case in court. His service in the navy lasted two years, and he has no criminal records as far as I know.



    I had a supervisor who had the same thing during the vietnam era...... In todays military, It can not happen the way it has been described.


    You need a waiver, and your case needs to be fully adjudicated, unless someone is breaking the law.
    You should try to remember, ideas are conveyed by researching information, vetting sources, and confirming said information. Not by regurgitating talking points given to you by your "news" station.
    Don't hate me 'cause I'm beautiful, but hate me all the more.

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