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Thread: Obama finds room for lobbyists

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    Re: Obama finds room for lobbyists

    Quote Originally Posted by WillRockwell View Post
    I expect that if you are staffing a new government in Washington, it would be next to impossible to find people who have never been employed by lobbying firms. What's more, most of the time that connection is quite innocent.
    So which is it:

    1) Before he was elected, Obama didn't know what you just said, in which case he's a moron, or
    2) Obama knew what you just said and still promised not to hire lobbyists even though he knew he would break that promise were he elected, in which case he must think his supporters are morons

    ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    You're right. Dick Cheney is VICE PRESIDENT. This guy is....ummmm deputy of a position what is a mostly irrelevant position as far as final decision making goes? And when did I go after Dick Cheney? Dude...get a clue....I didn't even bring him up. Somebody else did. I commented that THEIR comparison was faulty. It's like comparing a chihuahua(the deputy) to a Pitbull and saying they have the same amount of bite in the end. Which they don't.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Unless that Vice President is of course the former CEO of Halliburton and then Halliburton makes retarded money from a war that Vice President heavily lobbied for. But if this is what you want to compare the guy who is......the assistant bitch of some position most of us find irrelevant. Then sure?
    Secretary of Defense is a "position most of us find irrelevant"? Wtf are you talking about? And what on earth makes you think that Deputy Secretary of Defense isn't an incredibly important position?

    Quick quiz: Who is one of the main people that most liberals consider the architects of the Iraq War?

    Think Progress THE ARCHITECTS OF WAR: WHERE ARE THEY NOW?

    What's the first name on that list, and what position did he hold in the Bush administration?

    Unless you're trying to argue that Paul Wolfowitz was an irrelevant little bitch chihuahua, I don't know where you're coming from.
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    Re: Obama finds room for lobbyists

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    Now on to Obama, he said no lobbyists in the administration, yet we have lobbyists in the administration, so the comparison is valid if you use the perspective of charges of lying by the other side and apologist attitudes from the base.

    He said no lobbyists.

    Which one was the first one, since his campaign seemed to do a lot of changing, or at least one was repeated the most.
    From what I have read he started with "no lobbyists in his White House", saying it a few times in 2007, and moved to the "lobbyists wont dominate the administration" in 2008.

    Which one is this "promise"? Does saying something before the other make one a promise over the other?
    Last edited by Gibberish; 01-30-09 at 02:15 AM.
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    Re: Obama finds room for lobbyists

    Quote Originally Posted by Gibberish View Post
    From what I have read he started with "no lobbyists in his White House", saying it a few times in 2007, and moved to the "lobbyists wont dominate the administration" in 2008.

    Which one is this "promise"? Does saying something before the other make one a promise over the other?
    Direct quote from Obama:

    "No political appointees in an Obama-Biden administration will be permitted to work on regulations or contracts directly and substantially related to their prior employer for two years. And no political appointee will be able to lobby the executive branch after leaving government service during the remainder of the administration."

    Lynn was a lobbyist for Raytheon, and is now serving as the Deputy Secretary of Defense, where he will clearly be involved in "regulations or contracts directly and substantially related to [his] prior employer."

    And before you claim that this doesn't really fall within that definition, Obama has already explicitly acknowledged that Lynn does, as he has indicated that Lynn will be receiving a "waiver."

    I didn't know you could create "waivers" for your promises.
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    Re: Obama finds room for lobbyists

    Quote Originally Posted by Gibberish View Post
    From what I have read he started with "no lobbyists in his White House", saying it a few times in 2007, and moved to the "lobbyists wont dominate the administration" in 2008.

    Which one is this "promise"? Does saying something before the other make one a promise over the other?
    here's the thing, it absolutely speaks to character here. If I make a promise, it's a promise, so I better have a very good reason for amending or otherwise not fulfilling it accompanied by an apology, I see neither with Obama.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

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    Re: Obama finds room for lobbyists

    Quote Originally Posted by Middleground View Post
    LOL.

    So you're basically saying that Bush lied his ass off.
    Hahahahahah, um no
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    Re: Obama finds room for lobbyists

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    here's the thing, it absolutely speaks to character here. If I make a promise, it's a promise, so I better have a very good reason for amending or otherwise not fulfilling it accompanied by an apology, I see neither with Obama.
    I'm new here, but you must have been one of George Bush's biggest critics. The promises he made and broke which actually affected the lives and well beings of real people, must have driven you crazy.

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    Re: Obama finds room for lobbyists

    Quote Originally Posted by WillRockwell View Post
    I'm new here, but you must have been one of George Bush's biggest critics. The promises he made and broke which actually affected the lives and well beings of real people, must have driven you crazy.
    Bush made mistakes, I stated late last year though that the president's true mistakes were rarely disgussed while he got too much criticism for what amounted to a judgement call. Bush was economically liberal, and he and the Republican congress spent too much, Bush made great calls for the Supreme Court, but horrible choices in some of his cabinet picks. Iraq was going to be done eventually, the time is up for debate. I don't personally care about the Obama cabinet lobby thing as much as other issues to be honest, it's just fun to watch the worst of the partisans have to eat a little crow over the G.W.B. lie accusations.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

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    Re: Obama finds room for lobbyists

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    Bush made mistakes, I stated late last year though that the president's true mistakes were rarely disgussed while he got too much criticism for what amounted to a judgement call. Bush was economically liberal, and he and the Republican congress spent too much, Bush made great calls for the Supreme Court, but horrible choices in some of his cabinet picks. Iraq was going to be done eventually, the time is up for debate. I don't personally care about the Obama cabinet lobby thing as much as other issues to be honest, it's just fun to watch the worst of the partisans have to eat a little crow over the G.W.B. lie accusations.
    I'm not speaking of Bush "judgement calls", but deliberate lies, uttered to take advantage of the public's trust of their president. Lies to generate approval to go to war, lies about the results of that war, lies about political dirty tricks to justify that war, lies about torture and incarceration of many innocent people. Americans trust their president....Bush used that trust to make fools out of the American people and their elected representatives. And I have little tolerance for those who rationalized and supported his lies while he was in office.

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    Re: Obama finds room for lobbyists

    Great persuaders throughout world history have succeeded not only in getting instant concurrence but also long term denial of any wrong doing by the nations they lead. Once they are in office the masses don't have a choice. In the cases of democracies the voters are willing (especially here in this country) to lean back and accept initial mistakes. However, the truely great persuaders seize upon this weakness and before a nation can detect it they have a tyrant whose words cannot go unheralded and there can be no words to the contrary. The recent attack on conservative talk radio is an example of Obammy testing the waters. If the brainwashed (and there are millions upon millions)do as he predicts conservatism will be another word for dissent and the democrats will have achieved theoir goal.
    It's nothing more than X's and O's.

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    Re: Obama finds room for lobbyists

    Quote Originally Posted by WillRockwell View Post
    If they no longer work for lobbying firms, they are not lobbyists. And unlike Dick Cheney, who went directly from CEO of Halliburton to the guy who picked Halliburton to rebuild Iraq, former lobbyists no longer care about the concerns of their former employers.
    You just have really no desire to read peoples posts at all or debate a bit, but instead to just speaking your talking points over and over again as if they're true and ignore people that counter them.

    Will, what do you say about this:

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    I'm sure you're talking about that from a completely informed platform, right Will Rockwell? I'm sure you're not just regurgitating partisan talking points in hoping to avoid having to say something poor about Obama so you can focus an attack on Bush. Because you know...

    It'd be sad if you ignored that a Congressional report sasid the contract was “properly” awarded. And I'm sure you didn't ignore that "only contractor that was determined to be in a position to provide the services within the required time frame."

    That Crazy Pentagon! How DARE they award a contract that was needed to be awarded quickly to the only contractor that was in a position to handle it. They should've instead said "Screw the needs of this country, Liberals may be upset! We can't allow that" and had a bidding process, prolonging how quickly they could get the company going with the project, and in the end possibly having it awarded to a company that either was undersized for the job or awarding it to KBR anyways after wasting a ton of time.

    On the issues Fact Check
    I posted this in response to your earlier statement about halliburton. So shall you be backing up your claim that Cheny, and not the Pentagon, picked the company (what company was it? While TIED to halliburton, it wasn't halliburton). Do you have any data saying that it wasn't done properly, or that there was another contracter that could've provided the services in the time needed? Or are you just spouting talking points, ignoring anyone that actually brings up facts to counter you, and just strive to switch topics when you're backed in a corner?

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