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Thread: Obama finds room for lobbyists

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    Re: Obama finds room for lobbyists

    What I wonder more is, are those individual who he appointed the best for that position or are there better candidates? If they are the best would those whining about Obama willing to not have the best in a position just to hold true to a single statement?

    Obama was definitely naive in making such a statement.

    Does all this mean Obama will now fail as President and fall into corruption and incompetence? I doubt it.

    Obama is a politician and as a politician he cannot be held to his literal word but should be held to the ideals of what he says. It's easy to say when you are not President, "I will do X" as an absolute, only to find out doing exactly that without any budging is not really feasible.
    "Gold gets dug out of the ground in Africa, or someplace. Then we melt it down, dig another hole, bury it again and pay people to stand around guarding it. It has no utility. Anyone watching from Mars would be scratching their head."
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    Re: Obama finds room for lobbyists

    Quote Originally Posted by WillRockwell View Post
    I expect that if you are staffing a new government in Washington, it would be next to impossible to find people who have never been employed by lobbying firms. What's more, most of the time that connection is quite innocent.
    Then I guess it was poor judgment at best, and utter dishonesty at worst, for Obama to make not having people that were tied to lobbyists involved in his government

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    Re: Obama finds room for lobbyists

    Quote Originally Posted by Chosen1 View Post
    Well the very first one that came to me was his support of the patriot act and all the civil liberty that it distinctively took away.
    and what has he done SINCE becoming president??? Did he revoke the act? Or restore some civil liberty or is this a non-sequitur regarding broken/kept Obama campaign promises?

    I complained about that as soon as I read about it but it was left to drown under all the other junk that was being thrown around at the time.

    I really kind of feel responsible. I feel like a lot of people out there may have been influenced by my logic because it was similar to theirs and I was really just a fool because no one on either side is going to really represent me and my opinions. The fact is that I mean jack to them and they don't care about that in itself either and it's just the same for all of us really.
    Please stop, this isn't a therapy group.

    I don't approve of him being compared to Martin Luther King Jr. nor do I approve of him putting Martin Luther King III on the podium because that was absolutely disrespectful to the memory of his father if anyone has actually done research on what his son does to disrespect his family's name and honor. This guy is selling his name to the highest bidder and it really seems like Obama is doing just the same but he is selling out every single african-american with him.
    what a ridiculous worry: "Obama is selling out blacks". That is a non-issue.

    These people believe in him and it really makes me sick because a lot of people, black or white, have a lot of other junk to put up with without all this crap being thrown at them, crap they can't even see clearly... every empathic nerve in my body gets angry when I think about it.
    that "crap" has always been there. Its just that the hype is finally wearing off so you finally smell it.
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    Re: Obama finds room for lobbyists

    Quote Originally Posted by Gibberish View Post
    What I wonder more is, are those individual who he appointed the best for that position or are there better candidates? If they are the best would those whining about Obama willing to not have the best in a position just to hold true to a single statement?

    Obama was definitely naive in making such a statement.

    Does all this mean Obama will now fail as President and fall into corruption and incompetence? I doubt it.

    Obama is a politician and as a politician he cannot be held to his literal word but should be held to the ideals of what he says. It's easy to say when you are not President, "I will do X" as an absolute, only to find out doing exactly that without any budging is not really feasible.
    That's pretty much how I feel.

    All politicians break promises, and I didn't expect Obama to keep all of his. It would be impossible. Now if these people turn out to be hacks, then yeah, he made piss-poor choices. Why cry now about it? Wait and see. They could turn out to be excellent choices.
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    Re: Obama finds room for lobbyists

    [QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by Gibberish View Post
    What I wonder more is, are those individual who he appointed the best for that position or are there better candidates? If they are the best would those whining about Obama willing to not have the best in a position just to hold true to a single statement?

    Obama was definitely naive in making such a statement.
    The left took shots a Bush for over 6 years over intelligence and called it a lie with no proof, we have Obama's own words and actions proving he lied and you don't think we on the right are going to fire back? But on the other end of the argument, if the lobbyists are the best people for the positions that is understandable, however the onus is now on the president to explain why he they are the best for the position and he is making exceptions to the no lobbyist pomise.

    Does all this mean Obama will now fail as President and fall into corruption and incompetence? I doubt it.
    This doesn't mean anything more than he already broke a promise in less than a month in office, if he keeps making ill advised moves he will fail, if his advisors were picked for anything less than qualifications he will fail, but that is for the future to decide, no one can predict anything with certainty yet.

    Obama is a politician and as a politician he cannot be held to his literal word but should be held to the ideals of what he says.
    I don't agree with his ideals, likewise with many Americans, so his word is all he has with us, and if he fails, those who don't share a solid idealogy with him or can't trust him will be lost in the re-election campaign, so yes, this is kind of important.
    It's easy to say when you are not President, "I will do X" as an absolute, only to find out doing exactly that without any budging is not really feasible.
    That courtesy wasn't extended to other presidents in history, so why start that now.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

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    Re: Obama finds room for lobbyists

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Comparing an elected figure, the Vice President, to appointed figures, Seceretary's and others, is kind of apples to oranges.

    There's definitely lobbyists in Bush's camp that you could've used to use an honest comparison. Instead, you choose Dick Cheney whose not a good example because its a completely different TYPE of position. This makes me wonder why you didn't go for an actual legitimate analogy. And, even if you had...so what? Why is it okay for people to have no problem with Obama doing something (having lobbyists AND seemingly purposefully breaking a campaign promise and/or lieing) that they had a problem with Bush doing it?
    You're right. Dick Cheney is VICE PRESIDENT. This guy is....ummmm deputy of a position what is a mostly irrelevant position as far as final decision making goes? And when did I go after Dick Cheney? Dude...get a clue....I didn't even bring him up. Somebody else did. I commented that THEIR comparison was faulty. It's like comparing a chihuahua(the deputy) to a Pitbull and saying they have the same amount of bite in the end. Which they don't.
    Last edited by Hatuey; 01-29-09 at 09:38 PM.
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    Re: Obama finds room for lobbyists

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    In practice, I would assume that a Deputy Secretary of Defense will have far more contact with and influence over matters involving Raytheon than a Vice-President would have with Halliburton
    Unless that Vice President is of course the former CEO of Halliburton and then Halliburton makes retarded money from a war that Vice President heavily lobbied for. But if this is what you want to compare the guy who is......the assistant bitch of some position most of us find irrelevant. Then sure?
    Last edited by Hatuey; 01-29-09 at 09:43 PM.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Obama finds room for lobbyists

    [QUOTE=LaMidRighter;1057904340]
    The left took shots a Bush for over 6 years over intelligence and called it a lie with no proof, we have Obama's own words and actions proving he lied and you don't think we on the right are going to fire back?
    What is the actual quote you are talking about?

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    Re: Obama finds room for lobbyists

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post

    What is the actual quote you are talking about?
    I was just saying that in general people are doing the apologist thing about Obama but many were the same calling Bush a liar because of the war buildup, now, we know the intelligence was innaccurate, but not that Bush lied, Obama said no lobbyists and we have lobbyists.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

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    Re: Obama finds room for lobbyists

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    The left took shots a Bush for over 6 years over intelligence and called it a lie with no proof, we have Obama's own words and actions proving he lied and you don't think we on the right are going to fire back? But on the other end of the argument, if the lobbyists are the best people for the positions that is understandable, however the onus is now on the president to explain why he they are the best for the position and he is making exceptions to the no lobbyist pomise.
    Are you seriously liking Bush's statments (Iraq, WMD, hunting Bin Laden, etc) to Obama saying "lobbyists will have no part in my White House"?

    It is on those people to prove themselves worth of their positions and they hold a piece of Obama's credibility in their actions, or lack there-of.

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    This doesn't mean anything more than he already broke a promise in less than a month in office, if he keeps making ill advised moves he will fail, if his advisors were picked for anything less than qualifications he will fail, but that is for the future to decide, no one can predict anything with certainty yet.
    Which promise are you talking about? The one where he said Lobbyists will not be in his White House or that Lobbyists won't dominate his administration?

    Obama has changed his opinion from "no lobbyists" to a "maybe some lobbyists but they won't dominate", several times through his campaign. Which one is the promise?

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    I don't agree with his ideals, likewise with many Americans, so his word is all he has with us, and if he fails, those who don't share a solid idealogy with him or can't trust him will be lost in the re-election campaign, so yes, this is kind of important. That courtesy wasn't extended to other presidents in history, so why start that now.
    His ideals in this instance is that Lobbyists will not be controlling the White House anymore. We will not have no-bid partnerships with corporations (Haliburton, BlackWater) above what is best for the country and the people.

    What don't you agree with?
    "Gold gets dug out of the ground in Africa, or someplace. Then we melt it down, dig another hole, bury it again and pay people to stand around guarding it. It has no utility. Anyone watching from Mars would be scratching their head."
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