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Thread: Obama finds room for lobbyists

  1. #131
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    Re: Obama finds room for lobbyists

    Quote Originally Posted by JMak View Post
    You're already conceding that Obama has poo-pooed major promises, yet, you're willing to give him a generous benefit of the doubt. Given that he's already poo-pooed major campaign promises, why do you grant him such a broad benefit of the doubt?
    Barack Obama (D)

    By the way, it seems to me that you never would have conceded that diplomacy had been exhausted anyway so you're kinda holding Bush accountable to an unattainable standard.
    Needless to say...

  2. #132
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    Re: Obama finds room for lobbyists

    Quote Originally Posted by Middleground View Post
    It seems he hired lobbyists for positions.

    a) They could be the best people for the job
    b) They don't appear to be crony pals
    c) It's too early to decipher whether they're doing a lousy enough job to complain.
    d) They're not former horse show judges.

    Of course kidding about the last one, but sorry, I just don't see the big whoop about this.
    The big whoop, of course, is that he made a plenary declaration that he would NOT hire lobbyists.

    The bigger whoop is that this (and other similar) threads illustrate the very unsuprisingly partisan nature of The Obamanistas, in that they're giving The Secular Messiah a pass.

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    Re: Obama finds room for lobbyists

    @ Secular Messiah
    Quote Originally Posted by faithful_servant View Post
    Being a psychiatric patient does not mean that you are mentally ill.



  4. #134
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    Re: Obama finds room for lobbyists

    Yes Reverend, I obvious see it now. People on the Right, or you, aren't really using negative terms for Obama because you use them when you're provoked it doesnt' really count. People on the Right, or you, aren't really using negative terms for Obama because you rationalize that its just an insult to his supporters, not him. Great ot know, I'll roll that up with the wonderful logic that Obama isn't "100%" breaking a promise on this.



    Also, little advise reverend. If you don't want me at least in some way referring specifically to you then don't respond to a post I make that is a generalized about some people on the right and then start talking about yourself. If you reference it towards you personally, the only way I can respond is to speak about your reference to you personally.

    However, you show your true desire and mindset here and how honest you were giving a damn about the theory of "debating politics" when you talk about me just "bashing righty" after I've spent this entire thread going after Obama and the illogical hypocracy of many on the left.

    Sorry reverend, not playing this pathetic little game. You apparently don't feel like even going within the same neighborhood of that horrible word called "objectivity". So keep on yapping if you wish, I'm sure someone else will respond to you.

    Quote Originally Posted by middleground
    It seems he hired lobbyists for positions.

    a) They could be the best people for the job
    b) They don't appear to be crony pals
    c) It's too early to decipher whether they're doing a lousy enough job to complain.
    d) They're not former horse show judges.

    Of course kidding about the last one, but sorry, I just don't see the big whoop about this.
    Perhaps you're missing some peoples point here Middle.

    Most here aren't arguing necessarily that "Lobbyists = bad". Actually, if you go back and look at posts by me and Right, we both actually say that lobbyists being in positions aren't necessarily bad.

    The issue is the fact that OBAMA and many of his supporters are the ones that said lobbyists in government are bad. Obama is the one that promised his supporters that he wouldn't have lobbyists in his white house while at the same time making it a campaign issue...to the point that one of Obama's approved commercials was specifically attacking McCain for having lobbyists on his staff....a semi important, if not "major" campaign issue.

    The issue that those on the Right are pointing out here is not that Obama is using Lobbyists. Its the fact that Obama promised to be a change from politics as usual, yet at best made poor judgement by making it a campaign point to be big and mean agaisnt Lobbyists and then had to bring them into his white house....or at worst flat out lied and made that a campaign issue becaue it'd work, but had no desire to keep it. Either way, both is extremely playing "Politics as Usual", latching onto something you can condemn your opponent for while you have no qualms doign it yourself.

    You say its still inside the first 100 days. It is...and already we're seeing Obama breaking campaign promises, promises on issues that were big enough to cause him to have a TV ad dedicated to attacking his opponent over it. What are we going to see 50 days in, 100 days in, a year in? If he's already breaking promises, potentially lieing, and just playing politics as usual what are we to expect going further.

    Its not about the lobbyists. Its about principle, honest, politics as usual, and hpyocracy of many on the right that complained about lobbyists for 8 years unconditionally with Bush and complained about lobbyists all through the campaigin unconditionally with McCain, but are now suddenly saying "lets wait, they may turn out good!"

    My other issue is just with people on the right hypocritical complaining about the left being hypocritical.

  5. #135
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    Re: Obama finds room for lobbyists

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    You're trying to misdirect the conversation.

    "Everyone does it" isnt a defense.
    My point was that it always happens so it should not come as a surprise.


    The big deal is that Obama lied.
    You see black, I see gray.


    Oh, I see. Its OK that your guy lied, because the lie was 'small'.
    Yes. Small and unimportant in the grand scheme of things.


    More misdirection (never mind that W did exactly that).

    You're right. I should not have mentioned this.
    No men are anywhere, and Im allowed to go in, because Im the owner of the pageant and therefore Im inspecting it, Trump said... Is everyone OK? You know, theyre standing there with no clothes. Is everybody OK? And you see these incredible looking women, and so I sort of get away with things like that.

  6. #136
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    Re: Obama finds room for lobbyists

    Quote Originally Posted by Middleground View Post
    It seems he hired lobbyists for positions.

    a) They could be the best people for the job
    b) They don't appear to be crony pals
    c) It's too early to decipher whether they're doing a lousy enough job to complain.
    d) They're not former horse show judges.

    Of course kidding about the last one, but sorry, I just don't see the big whoop about this.

    Of course you don't see the problem with this...you're covering for Obama.

    Obama declared that he represented change.

    Obama declared that lobbyists had too much influence in Washington.

    Obama campaigned on changing on the game was played in Washgington vowing not to hire lobbyists and to rewrite the rules regarding how lobbyists move in and out of government positions.

    Obama not only hired lobbyists for his own campaign, but now for his administration.

    It's a straight up violation of a major campaign promise.

    Now, you could argue that now in office Obama realizes that his unqualified campaign promises were bad ideas and that governing is actually more difficult than he thought it was, but that just exposes his real naivete.

  7. #137
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    Re: Obama finds room for lobbyists

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Yes Reverend, I obvious see it now. People on the Right, or you, aren't really using negative terms for Obama because you use them when you're provoked it doesnt' really count. People on the Right, or you, aren't really using negative terms for Obama because you rationalize that its just an insult to his supporters, not him. Great ot know, I'll roll that up with the wonderful logic that Obama isn't "100%" breaking a promise on this.

    wahhh keep crying. I care not about your nonsense. You are being dishonest when you make up my point and give it to me.

    Then when I point out your flaw, you change it in your typical whinefest.



    My challenge still stands. If you want me to act like the last 8 years for a day, You will have quite the busy day.




    Also, little advise reverend. If you don't want me at least in some way referring specifically to you then don't respond to a post I make that is a generalized about some people on the right and then start talking about yourself. If you reference it towards you personally, the only way I can respond is to speak about your reference to you personally.
    First, its "advice"..... Second, try to follow along, MG called me out you butted in, I continued the conversation.

    you fail.



    However, you show your true desire and mindset here and how honest you were giving a damn about the theory of "debating politics" when you talk about me just "bashing righty" after I've spent this entire thread going after Obama and the illogical hypocracy of many on the left.

    You have plenty to bash the left on, but here you had to go out of your way to throw the Zyphlin mantrum at me.... Sorry man. The only dishonesty is yours.




    Sorry reverend, not playing this pathetic little game. You apparently don't feel like even going within the same neighborhood of that horrible word called "objectivity". So keep on yapping if you wish, I'm sure someone else will respond to you.

    Awesome, See how you want to act like a jerk, I will throw it back in your face. As I have always done.


    There is no game. Only you throwing a mantrum.




    You get what you give my friend.
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

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    Re: Obama finds room for lobbyists

    Quote Originally Posted by Middleground View Post
    My point was that it always happens so it should not come as a surprise.
    Well, I'm not at all surprised given that Obama had already violated this change principle both during the campaign ad in nominating cabinet positions.

    But I don't the others are carping because they were surprised. They're rightly reacting to Obama violating a major campaign promise.

    You see black, I see gray.
    Of course you do. Obama is The One and, more importantly, a Democrat.

  9. #139
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    Re: Obama finds room for lobbyists

    Quote Originally Posted by JMak View Post
    By the way, you do realize that Obama's carping about lobbyist influence in Washington was directly tied to his campaign theme of change, right? Obama was arguing that Washington was run by powerful lobbying interests rather than by the people and that he was going to change that.
    How is this topic relevant to what I bolded???

    These people are no longer "powerful" lobbyists, therefore they are now representations of the American government, not a corporation. I hope that Obama will NOT fall to the powerful lobbyists when it comes to decisions/policies made for healthcare and the environment. See the difference?

    And BTW, as far as I know, Obama campaign of change was a heck of a lot more than that. Transparency is a biggie, don't you think?
    No men are anywhere, and Im allowed to go in, because Im the owner of the pageant and therefore Im inspecting it, Trump said... Is everyone OK? You know, theyre standing there with no clothes. Is everybody OK? And you see these incredible looking women, and so I sort of get away with things like that.

  10. #140
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    Re: Obama finds room for lobbyists

    I think it's clear that the right has an agenda to defeat Obama which began the moment he was inaugurated. It has nothing to do with what Obama actually does or says, it has to do with picking the most appropriate weakness and exagerating it into outrage.

    Every president makes mistakes, the right plans on using each mistake as a concrete example of why Democrats should not be allowed to govern. Today, all they have is the nomination of former lobbyists after Obama indicated a distaste for lobbyists in government. It's not much, but it will do.

    The basic strategy of the right is not to allow Obama to govern. A Democratic success is unacceptable. Republican legislators will not vote for legislation that casts Democrats in a favorable light. This is war. The notion of working together to strengthen America is immaterial and naive.

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