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Thread: Where you use credit cards may affect your score

  1. #41
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    Re: Where you use credit cards may affect your score

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Having the freedom to choose doesn't in any way mean you have the right to expect choices that you like.
    Once you accept that truth, you'll feel much better.
    So if every major gas station operator in America agrees to charge $8 per gallon, you have the choice of not buying gasoline if you don't like it. And therefore such collusion shouldn't be illegal. Right?
    Last edited by Kandahar; 01-29-09 at 03:38 PM.
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    Re: Where you use credit cards may affect your score

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    Is there any indication that the credit card companies are conspiring to implement this in violation of anti-trust laws? If not, then why don't people just choose a different card provider?
    No, they aren't conspiring with one another. But information technology will ultimately lead them all to this same policy if it isn't banned. My point wasn't that the credit card companies were colluding, my point was that when ALL companies in an industry have the same policies the consumer doesn't REALLY have any choice, which is why collusion/trusts/monopolies are illegal.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 01-29-09 at 03:37 PM.
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    Re: Where you use credit cards may affect your score

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    So if every major gas station operator in America agrees to charge $8 per gallon, you have the choice of not buying gasoline if you don't like it. And therefore such collusion shouldn't be illegal. Right?
    Aside from the fact that you're now arguing apples and oranges - another sure sign that you know you cannot counter what I said....

    ...you seem to have a -real- problem with the idea that having the freedom to choose doesn't in any way mean you have the right to expect choices that you like.

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    Re: Where you use credit cards may affect your score

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Aside from the fact that you're now arguing apples and oranges - another sure sign that you know you cannot counter what I said....

    ...you seem to have a -real- problem with the idea that having the freedom to choose doesn't in any way mean you have the right to expect choices that you like.
    So then you're answer is yes. In that case, we've pretty much established that A) you have no problem with companies doing anything they want under any circumstances as long as the consumer supposedly has a "choice," and B) you have absolutely no understanding of technology or economics since you are unaware that credit is quickly replacing cash and are unwilling to consider the ramifications of that.

    Yep, you're right. Our conversation is finished. Kthxbai.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 01-29-09 at 03:55 PM.
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    Re: Where you use credit cards may affect your score

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    So then you're answer is yes. In that case, we've pretty much established that A) you have no problem with companies doing anything they want under any circumstances as long as the consumer supposedly has a "choice," and B) you have absolutely no understanding of technology or economics since you are unaware that credit is quickly replacing cash and unwilling to consider the ramifications of that.
    Agahn, keep thiking that.

    When you can address/counter what I actually post, rather than put up straw men, please get back to me.

    I'll not hold my breath.
    Last edited by Goobieman; 01-29-09 at 03:56 PM.

  6. #46
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    Re: Where you use credit cards may affect your score

    Quote Originally Posted by Indy View Post
    I'm against this for a different reason. I don't give a rat's ass about the privacy non-issue, but what I DO have a problem with is the profiling. I think it would be fair to say that as a general rule African Americans have a worse credit score than Caucasian Americans based solely on the fact that the average income is less and therefore a lower credit score average is almost certain. With that in mind, with lower income comes less available housing options and a greater density of that specific group than would otherwise exist. With such a high population density you are undoubtedly going to see similar shopping patterns because so many people live in the same neighborhood with the same stores. So, at the end of the day, what's to keep these credit card companies from starting to ding peoples credit because they shop at the same neighborhood grocery store? People are going to start being punished for living in specific neighborhoods before long. THAT I have an issue with.
    If credit card companies want to profile you, that is OK with me. They can do whatever they want. On the other hand, YOU have the right to close your account if you don't like it. That is what I did, after one of my credit card companies, First USA, raised their interest rate. I just closed my account, and am paying my balance at the old rate. Once it is paid off, they will solicit me for another card, and here is where this "freedom to do as one wishes" comes into play again - I will have the right to give them a big fat middle finger and tell them to **** off.
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    Re: Where you use credit cards may affect your score

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    If credit card companies want to profile you, that is OK with me. They can do whatever they want. On the other hand, YOU have the right to close your account if you don't like it.

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    Re: Where you use credit cards may affect your score

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    I realize that, but my point is that there's really no fundamental difference. Both involve profiling the debtor based on the financial characteristics of OTHER members of his group...whether they be African-Americans or marriage counseling customers.
    But that doesn't violate civil rights laws.

    But as you said:
    The credit card companies likely feel the same way, and will use any and all information available to them to assess risk, as long as it is legal to do so. I wouldn't count on them not giving it any weight...especially if it leads to even MORE invasive risk-assessment techniques.
    I agree, but I really just don't see how this is that bad. If a lot of people are opposed to it, they can use a company that doesn't do it or see about getting the law changed. I just don't think it's a huge deal.

    Sure. But the key difference is that in your example, the risk-assessment is limited to the loan for the product in question. On the other hand, I don't think a person who drives up to the bank in a Cadillac Escalade to get a home loan or a credit card should be penalized.
    But should it be limited to the loan for the product in question? Say you're a credit card lender who has two customers with an equivalent income/history, one of which buys an Escalade while the other buys a Corolla. Say they use their credit cards for the down payments, which are equal, but pay the rest of the loans themselves, so their credit utilization rate remains the same at the beginning. Isn't it completely valid (and common sense) that the card company will be a bit more leery about extending additional credit to the guy who purchased the Escalade, if only because it means he has taken on a significantly larger financial burden? Why shouldn't they be able to use that information in deciding who should get a larger credit line?

    Such processes are always rapid enough to invade privacy, but gradual enough that by the time Congress notices the perpetrators will be able to argue that it's essential to their business.
    According to a cursory reading of that article, this isn't anything new either.


    It sets a very ugly precedent for corporations to invade privacy while the government stands by and does nothing...health insurance companies requiring you to submit your DNA,
    What's wrong with some companies choosing to do this? If I were someone without genetic predisposition toward a set of diseases, why shouldn't I be able to join an insurance plan with similarly situated people? It's only a problem when people are forced to join such plans.

    prospective employers checking to see if you've been arrested (even if you weren't convicted),
    I just signed a consent form for a full background check this morning. I didn't have to if I didn't want to, but I like the job, so I did.

    internet service providers monitoring your web history and your emails, etc.
    I'm unaware of any that do this, but there are plenty of other providers out there if people don't want to deal with that.
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    Re: Where you use credit cards may affect your score

    Jokes on them....I only use credit cards that pay me rewards and pay off my full balance every month....

    Your desire to ban this credit card practice is a slippery slope. Just by going on the internet you're opening yourself up to prying eyes. You think google just helps you find things? Yeah right.

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    Re: Where you use credit cards may affect your score

    Article in Saturday's NYT discussing this exact issue:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/31/yo...gewanted=print

    You probably know that credit card companies have been scrutinizing every charge on your account in recent years, searching for purchases that thieves may have made. Turns out, though, that some of the companies have been suspicious of your ownspending, too.

    In recent months, American Express has gone far beyond simply checking your credit score and making sure you pay on time. The company has been looking at home prices in your area, the type of mortgage lender you’re using and whether small-business card customers work in an industry under siege. It has also been looking at how you spend your money, searching for patterns or similarities to other customers who have trouble paying their bills.

    In some instances, if it didn’t like what it was seeing, the company has cut customer credit lines. It laid out this logic in letters that infuriated many of the cardholders who received them. “Other customers who have used their card at establishments where you recently shopped,” one of those letters said, “have a poor repayment history with American Express.”

    It sure sounded as if American Express had developed a blacklist of merchants patronized by troubled cardholders. But late this week, American Express told me that wasn’t the case. The company said it had also decided to stop using what it has called “spending patterns” as a criteria in its credit line reductions.

    “The letters were wrong to imply we were looking at specific merchants,” said Susan Korchak, a company spokeswoman. The company uses hundreds of data points in making its decisions, she said, adding that the main factor in determining credit lines “has always been and still is the overall level of debt, relative to the card member’s financial resources.”
    A spokesman for Citigroup says that it is using some mortgage data to help it make credit decisions, but it is not using specific store data or looking at types of merchandise purchased. A spokeswoman for Capitol One said that geography was one of many factors it considered and that it, too, did not make decisions based on where people shop.
    American Express wouldn’t have been the first company to try cordoning off certain industries. Last year, CompuCredit, a subprime lender, got in trouble with the Federal Trade Commission for failing to disclose that it could reduce customers’ credit lines for using their cards at various establishments.

    What was on CompuCredit’s no-go list? Marriage counselors, tire retreading and repair shops, bars and nightclubs, pool halls, pawnshops and massage parlors, among others.
    American Express has also been looking at the health of the industries where its small-business cardholders work. If you’re a dentist, say, you may have less trouble with the card company than if you work in construction or finance. Al Kelly, the company’s president, said in a presentation in August that it had made changes in credit limits “by looking at industries that are facing, or might face, incremental stress.” The “might face” could encompass all sorts of industries of the company’s choosing.
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