• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

93-year-old froze to death, owed big utility bill

DeeJayH

DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 22, 2005
Messages
11,728
Reaction score
1,688
Location
Scooping Zeus' Poop
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
93-year-old froze to death, owed big utility bill - Daily Journal Online Archives


BAY CITY, Mich. (AP) — A 93-year-old man froze to death inside his home just days after the municipal power company restricted his use of electricity because of unpaid bills, officials said.

Marvin E. Schur died “a slow, painful death,” said Kanu Virani, Oakland County’s deputy chief medical examiner, who performed the autopsy.

Neighbors discovered Schur’s body on Jan. 17. They said the indoor temperature was below 32 degrees at the time, The Bay City Times reported Monday.

A city utility worker had installed a “limiter” device to restrict the use of electricity at Schur’s home on Jan. 13, said Bay City Manager Robert Belleman. The device limits power reaching a home and blows out like a fuse if consumption rises past a set level. Power is not restored until the device is reset.

The body was discovered by neighbor George Pauwels Jr., who said Schur had almost $1,100 in unpaid electric bills. Pauwels told the newspaper he saw cash clipped to those bills on the kitchen table on the day he found Schur’s body.

****ing bureaucrats
utterly disgusting, he was 93 for crying out loud
 
I seem to remember growing up in NH that it was illegal for PSNH to cut off electricity services to residents during the winter-time. I can't believe a state like Michigan, one of the nation's coldest states and supposedly very liberal on such issues, would allow something like this to happen. A surprising shame.
 
Isn't this a duplicate?
 
Was this a private or public energy company?
 
Where were his neighbors? I have two very old ladies next door about 93 who get plenty of attention from the neighborhood. It's our responsibility and it doesn't matter that one of them is really demanding and crotchety.

Of course, they know how to pick up the phone and call one of us if they are in trouble.
 
Ludahai posted.
Quote
(Does it matter? It is winter, he is old, under no circumstances should the company shut off his power.)

Every energy supply company is in business only because they make a profit.
No profit, no business.
In this instance we all lose out.
I too am sorry about this gentleman's death also from such a cause, but it needs to be realized we are all of us responsible.
His neighbors could have intervened.
 
Ludahai posted.
Quote
(Does it matter? It is winter, he is old, under no circumstances should the company shut off his power.)

Every energy supply company is in business only because they make a profit.
No profit, no business.
In this instance we all lose out.
I too am sorry about this gentleman's death also from such a cause, but it needs to be realized we are all of us responsible.
His neighbors could have intervened.

You don't have the right to take away a service that could kill that person. I don't know about Michigan, but in many places, electric services are considered a public trust and is a government granted monopoly. With that comes certain responsibilities to the public. Cutting off power to anyone, much less a 93-year-old man, in the middle of a Michigan winter, is an abrogation of that responsibility.
 
Does it matter? It is winter, he is old, under no circumstances should the company shut off his power.
How would they know that he is 93?
 
Well if it's a 21 year old mooching punk, I'd have a different attitude.
 
Well if it's a 21 year old mooching punk, I'd have a different attitude.

If the utility is going to cut off power in the dead of winter, they have SOME responsibility to ensure that they are not cutting that power off to a vulnerable senior citizen before doing it.
 
I hope his family sues that utility company for all they are worth.
I don't think he had family, but if he did, why should they sue? Knowing they had a 93 year old relative who couldn't pay his bills, maybe they should have taken care of him themselves instead of relying on the good graces of people who only knew him as an account number. Since the neighbors saw the shut off notice on his door, why didn't any of them offer a warm bed for the night? It's about compassion, people. And the electric company isn't only one lacking here. Except it's not their job.
 
interesting commentary here

Why would these deaths be considered murder? In many cases, these shutoffs have occurred during cold weather and during snowstorms. The utility companies have knowingly put people at risk because of late bills, even with laws in many states that prohibit shutoffs depending on the winter months and the current temperatures. When willful shutoffs cause the deaths of innocent people when they have a reasonable expectation that their actions may cause death, the companies have indeed committed murder just as unquestionably as if they held a gun to the individual's head.

If Michigan is one of these states, the electric company is DEFINATELY in the wrong and guilty of at least manslaughter.
 
If the utility is going to cut off power in the dead of winter, they have SOME responsibility to ensure that they are not cutting that power off to a vulnerable senior citizen before doing it.
They will have already sent notices and made phone calls.
 
And in those phone calls, they didn't ascertain that this man was 93 years old and apparently a WWII vet?

Why would they ask that? They're not social workers. "Mr X, your power is scheduled to be disxonnected for non-payment on x/xx/09. Please contact our billing dept to make payment arrangements."
 
And in those phone calls, they didn't ascertain that this man was 93 years old and apparently a WWII vet?
I'm sorry, but that is not their job. His family should have been more responsible. Don't lay the burden on a company with thousands of customers. Where were his children checking on him, and see if his bills were paid. Obviously something was wrong with the man if he couldn't handle his own bills and so his children should have known.
 
Brunner said the city sent multiple notices to Schur, but no one made personal contact with him to explain how the device works.

"No one's electricity will be turned off," Brunner said. "Until we come up with a policy to make sure this doesn't happen again, we're not going to turn anybody's power off."

link
is here
 
I'm sorry, but that is not their job. His family should have been more responsible. Don't lay the burden on a company with thousands of customers. Where were his children checking on him, and see if his bills were paid. Obviously something was wrong with the man if he couldn't handle his own bills and so his children should have known.

In many states, it IS their job. Do we know the family situation of this man? Amazing you can be so callous about a 93-year-old man who was a WWII vet.

BTW, he HAD no children.

link

Schur, who had no children, owed Bay City Electric Light & Power more than $1,000 in unpaid electric bills, Bay City's city manager, Robert Belleman, told the Associated Press on Monday. A city utility worker had installed a device to restrict the use of electricity at Schur's home on Jan. 13, Belleman said.
 
Last edited:
In many states, it IS their job. Do we know the family situation of this man? Amazing you can be so callous about a 93-year-old man who was a WWII vet.
What if he hadn't been a WWII vet, would his death be okay? Callous, how about his family? How callous are they? Do you know the family situation? Why aren't you addressing my comments about his children, I guess they let their WWII vet hero dad die, didn't they?
 
What if he hadn't been a WWII vet, would his death be okay? Callous, how about his family? How callous are they? Do you know the family situation? Why aren't you addressing my comments about his children, I guess they let their WWII vet hero dad die, didn't they?

I DID address your comment about his children. HE has none. His wife has also passed away.
 
Back
Top Bottom