• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

House Passes 2009 SCHIP Bill

aps said:
These poor folks could save lots of money if they stopped smoking. Wow. What a concept.
Click to expand...

I know you hate smokers, Aps but try to separate yourself for that for a moment. I really would like to know what you think about this.

If the government's intent is to tax cigarettes because they feel smoking is "punishable" are you truly OK with that?

I'm not saying that is the intent but it makes me wonder.
 
The government likes to encourage stupid behavior. We're easier to deal with if we're on the whole dumber. That's why lotto tickets pay for schools and cigs pay for health care. It elevates retarded to new levels just the way the government likes it.
 
missypea said:
I know you hate smokers, Aps but try to separate yourself for that for a moment. I really would like to know what you think about this.

If the government's intent is to tax cigarettes because they feel smoking is "punishable" are you truly OK with that?

I'm not saying that is the intent but it makes me wonder.
Click to expand...

Or perhaps you could think of it as a way to promote health?
 
EgoffTib said:
A car is not a necessity, nor will it ever be one. Riding a bike or walking are far better for your health, the environment and the people of the city you live in. So now that we have established that driving a car is something that has pros and cons, like everything else, and not a necessity, let us discuss the benefits of cigarette smoking:

- Helps individuals cope with stress
- The rhythmic breathing calms the smoker
- Helps focus
- Fights loneliness and depression
- Stimulates serotonin in the brain

So, like everything in this world, cars and cigarettes both have upsides and downsides to their use.
Click to expand...

I am a cycle commuter, so I do make use of the bicycle. However, without the car, how does my wife get the kids to school and how do I get those huge weekly hauls from Costco home? On a bicycle? Heck no.
 
Shewter said:
If you want an appropriate comparison.

Should we add the tax onto fast food?

Should we add the tax onto Soda?

Should we add the tax onto over the counter medicine?
Click to expand...

Does the consumption of fast food hoist poison on others? Soda? OTC medication?
 
Lets tax internet usage.

Anybody? :2razz:
 
Middleground said:
Or perhaps you could think of it as a way to promote health?
Click to expand...

I feel really at odds about the way it was proposed. I'm all for SCHIP, as I said in my first post. I'm definitely pro SCHIP. I believe in health care for everyone enough that I'll probably find a way to change my filters and find it bearable.

I don't like the idea of government pushing morality on me, though. It was one of my biggest gripes with the Bush administration. It's wrong and it's scary. Things don't start big, they start small and escalate. I always think of that saying:

....first they came for the jews...

Having said all that, I still don't know the reasoning behind the decision. I could be completely off base. Maybe I'm jaded because of the last eight years :shrug:

I had to be to work early today and I forgot to bring the phone numbers for my senators so I'm still in the dark as to their reasoning. Hopefully I'll have some answers tomorrow.

:twocents:
 
Shewter said:
These poor folks could save lots of money if they stopped _________ . Wow. What a concept.

Would YOU be okay with this bill taxing fast food sales, soda, over the counter medicine, or anything of the sort?

If a cigarette company wanted to add on to the costs of their product in order to donate to ________ I would be fine with that. But the government deciding on a product to tax heavier in order to support _________ bugs the **** out of me.

As a side note, these poor folks will be saving money when they buy their cigarettes on indian reservations instead of buying them at the local gas station or grocery store.

Then where is the funding going to come from?
Click to expand...

I don't eat at fast food restaurants, and I rarely drink sodas. Frankly, I wouldn't care if they taxed those two things. While I take over-the-counter medicine, I also wouldn't care if they taxed that as well.

You're pissed off about the cigarette tax. I, however, am not.
 
missypea said:
I know you hate smokers, Aps but try to separate yourself for that for a moment. I really would like to know what you think about this.

If the government's intent is to tax cigarettes because they feel smoking is "punishable" are you truly OK with that?

I'm not saying that is the intent but it makes me wonder.
Click to expand...

I don't have a problem with this. I have to pay higher health insurance premiums because of smokers. And, yes, I have to pay higher premiums for obesity. I would support a higher tax on food as well. Those who eat more should pay more.

missypea, I have to admit, I am such a cigarette hater that I don't care and, in fact, like it when cigarette smokers are punished by paying more for their disgusting habit. I'm sorry, but that's how it is for me.
 
talloulou said:
The government likes to encourage stupid behavior. We're easier to deal with if we're on the whole dumber. That's why lotto tickets pay for schools and cigs pay for health care. It elevates retarded to new levels just the way the government likes it.
Click to expand...

People who are affected by this law can bring it to court claiming it's unconstitutional. We can let the courts decide whether it's appropriate for a cigarette tax to pay for health care.
 
Shewter said:
Choose to live closer to your place of work.

Choose to work closer to your home.

See, this "it's a choice" arguement is kinda boring when it's turned back onto you isnt it? :roll:
Click to expand...

But now YOU'RE charging ME to do something against my will. See how YOUR argument was turned against you? There is a reason why there's the concept of suburbs. Partially to get away from "the city" and partially to have cheaper residential areas.

I could potentially live right next to my place of work. But then I'd be paying 2 or 3 times more. Maybe I couldn't find a residence there, in fact. Is it a choice if there are zero homes available closer to my place of work? Or maybe I choose not to live in a place that, after work hours, gets quite dangerous and/or loud. Or what if I have a child? Would you recommend that I tell my child to walk to school everyday? Wouldn't that mean that you support the endangerment of children?

I would rather this didn't turn into a game of "what-ifs." If my argument is so terrible, then prove it's terrible. Don't say "well yeah, but if a bolt of lightning strikes a rock which flies into the air and hits a cow that moos and scares a boy who runs into a rake that launches a pail into the sky it could hit me on the head and kill me" because that would definitely be a very convincing argument :roll:
 
aps said:
missypea, I have to admit, I am such a cigarette hater that I don't care and, in fact, like it when cigarette smokers are punished by paying more for their disgusting habit. I'm sorry, but that's how it is for me.
Click to expand...

People like you need smoke blown in your face on a daily basis.
 
Ikari said:
People like you need smoke blown in your face on a daily basis.
Click to expand...

You must be a smoker. I pity people like you.
 
aps said:
You must be a smoker. I pity people like you.
Click to expand...

Nope, I'm not a smoker. I just can stand emotionalized ignorance is all. I'd take people like you, and people the opposite of you (the smokers who don't give a **** about anyone around them) and lock y'all in a room. Let ya sit around being jerks to each other all you want. Then the calm, rational, and logical adults can sit down and make the rules. We don't need crying children making laws, they should just sit in the corner while the grown ups handle it.
 
Ikari said:
Nope, I'm not a smoker. I just can stand emotionalized ignorance is all. I'd take people like you, and people the opposite of you (the smokers who don't give a **** about anyone around them) and lock y'all in a room. Let ya sit around being jerks to each other all you want. Then the calm, rational, and logical adults can sit down and make the rules. We don't need crying children making laws, they should just sit in the corner while the grown ups handle it.
Click to expand...

*yawn* Insult me all you want. I have no shame in how I feel about smoking and smokers, and I am reveling in all the no-smoking laws that are getting passed around the United States. Do you think all these people making the laws are uncalm, irrational, and illogical adults?

You're the one that is furious about these laws being passed. So why you think you're calm, rational, and logical is beyond me. You're blinded by your anger. Pot, meet kettle.
 
Last edited:
aps said:
I don't eat at fast food restaurants, and I rarely drink sodas. Frankly, I wouldn't care if they taxed those two things. While I take over-the-counter medicine, I also wouldn't care if they taxed that as well.

You're pissed off about the cigarette tax. I, however, am not.
Click to expand...

I'm "pissed off" about them taxing a specific product without regards to the people.

There has yet to be a reason that is acceptable to myself and many others. The only agreeable parties are those who dislike cigarettes in general.
 
If it doesn't hurt me I don't care. Good I don't use that product, let them tax the hell out of it. Disgusting, you don't mind giving away other people's freedoms. Be careful what you don't care about, you might get it.
 
Smoke[MaxX] said:
But now YOU'RE charging ME to do something against my will. See how YOUR argument was turned against you? There is a reason why there's the concept of suburbs. Partially to get away from "the city" and partially to have cheaper residential areas.
Click to expand...

What makes you think I'm charging you to do something against your will? Your choice is there all along. You, just as I, make a choice to do these things each day. The mere fact that you decide to live in that area, or work farther away from where you live does not dictate how you commute, does it?
 
aps said:
*yawn* Insult me all you want. I have no shame in how I feel about smoking and smokers, and I am reveling in all the no-smoking laws that are getting passed around the United States. Do you think all these people making the laws are uncalm, irrational, and illogical adults?

You're the one that is furious about these laws being passed. So why you think you're calm, rational, and logical is beyond me. You're blinded by your anger. Pot, meet kettle.
Click to expand...

Support me with evidence that my smoking negatively impacts you.

Explain to me what is "right" about denying a legal practice on ones property.

Also, explain to me what the benefit is when people will end up buying their cigarettes on the reservations and contribute ZERO taxes to the SCHIP program, and any other taxes for state, and federal purposes.

Push a person long enough and they'll push back. Think about it.
 
American said:
If it doesn't hurt me I don't care. Good I don't use that product, let them tax the hell out of it. Disgusting, you don't mind giving away other people's freedoms. Be careful what you don't care about, you might get it.
Click to expand...

But smokers are OBVIOUSLY disgusting so who cares right? :lol:

The tune of the song is always clear to those who sing it.
 
Shewter said:
I'm "pissed off" about them taxing a specific product without regards to the people.

There has yet to be a reason that is acceptable to myself and many others. The only agreeable parties are those who dislike cigarettes in general.
Click to expand...

I do see your point. I would like to read the rationale for this tax. I think it's easier for them to tax an item that isn't a necessity than one that is (food). I dunno.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom