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Thread: House Passes 2009 SCHIP Bill

  1. #211
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    Re: House Passes 2009 SCHIP Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by dclxvinoise View Post
    Personally I think the high tax on cigarettes is absurd as hell to begin with. Rather than putting a restriction on some of the deadly chemicals that cigarettes contain (Canada did this I believe) the government just taxes it, which means that they just want a piece of the pie. The tobacco companies are blatantly poisoning people and rather than doing the right thing our government just puts on a high tax and is essentially complicit. They could give a rats ass about what cigarettes contain and what those chemicals do to people.
    Hey, personally I would rather ban it completely.
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    Re: House Passes 2009 SCHIP Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by dclxvinoise View Post
    Personally I think the high tax on cigarettes is absurd as hell to begin with. Rather than putting a restriction on some of the deadly chemicals that cigarettes contain (Canada did this I believe) the government just taxes it, which means that they just want a piece of the pie. The tobacco companies are blatantly poisoning people and rather than doing the right thing our government just puts on a high tax and is essentially complicit. They could give a rats ass about what cigarettes contain and what those chemicals do to people.
    No one is forcing smokers to purchase cigarettes. If a smoker claimed that the tobacco compaines were blatantly poisoning him/her, I would laugh in his/her face. THE SMOKERS are the ones being complicit with the tobacco companies--not the government.

    Like ludahai, I'd love to see tobacco banned completely.

  3. #213
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    Re: House Passes 2009 SCHIP Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    Hey, personally I would rather ban it completely.
    Great idea. Prohibition was such a great success. And that war y'all are having on drugs, how's that working out for ya?

  4. #214
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    Re: House Passes 2009 SCHIP Bill

    Are you'll still talking about SCHIP?
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  5. #215
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    Re: House Passes 2009 SCHIP Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by ARealConservative View Post
    It would be really nice if you would quote my thread when addressing what I had said.
    It was not intended strictly for you, as this common pitfall persists throughout the aisle.

    your entire premise is centered around the theme that it is costing government money when people die young.
    That was part of it, but what i am really concerned about is my increased costs. You know, someone else's actions affecting me. I'm not to fond of such idea's.

    As a libertarian, I find this idea hilarious. You just changed the argument from how much government funds are wasted because of smoking to how much potential revenue is lost.
    All i displayed were the various reasons tobacco should be taxed.

    A libertarian that looks at a person as nothing short of a work mule, get a ****ing clue!
    Is this coming from a libertarian who views people dieing young as a cost saving phenomenon? If so, the hypocrisy is blinding.

    Maybe we should apply a heavy sin tax to those that retire young as well...it's the same reasoning behind it and equally nonlibertarian.
    Maybe to those who view Rothbard as this great economic thinker, but i consider the entire "anarcho-capitalist" notion to be about as plausible as full blown communism. Being that government is by far the greatest health care customer, increased costs of that particular service has the right to be reimbursed via excise taxation, a constitutional allowance. Watching people pay $7 per pack of cigarettes in Chicago has convinced me government has not taxed this excise to an unprofitable position.

    Ad hom and strawman...

    Your notion will be correct once taxation has caused profitability to suffer, resulting in layoffs and dividend slashing.

    I'm at a loss for words at how moronic your stance is.
    Let me get this straight, you cannot defend your position in a logical manner, so you result in ad hom's and strawmen? Ideology is great, but those unwilling to negotiate (requires common ground AKA compromise) should go work for Amnesty International, because they will be no more effective in achieving their political goals than AI.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

  6. #216
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    Re: House Passes 2009 SCHIP Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by aps View Post
    No one is forcing smokers to purchase cigarettes. If a smoker claimed that the tobacco compaines were blatantly poisoning him/her, I would laugh in his/her face. THE SMOKERS are the ones being complicit with the tobacco companies--not the government.

    Like ludahai, I'd love to see tobacco banned completely.
    Yes, and it's a shame that no one is regulating the tobacco companies to keep harmful and addictive chemicals out of their cigarettes. That would put them out of business and keep the massive amounts of tax money out of the government's pocket, so I don't see that happening anytime soon.

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    Re: House Passes 2009 SCHIP Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    Hey, personally I would rather ban it completely.
    And I'm sure that would go over as well as the prohibition did.

  8. #218
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    Re: House Passes 2009 SCHIP Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    All i displayed were the various reasons tobacco should be taxed.
    Do you have similar views on inheritance tax?

    Viewing individuals as revenue streams is nothing short of servitude. I want to see how far you are willing to slip down this slope on your crusade against tobacco.


    Is this coming from a libertarian who views people dieing young as a cost saving phenomenon? If so, the hypocrisy is blinding.
    This is why I would prefer you quote my words as you are stretching what I wrote. The amount of money the government spends per person is effected my their length of life, so any argument that it costs the government money when people smoke is inherently false. An individual that chooses risky behavior alone does not cost the government a dime, nor does he have the power to emand entitlements...they were willingly giving independent of his decision to engage in risky behavior.

    Maybe to those who view Rothbard as this great economic thinker, but i consider the entire "anarcho-capitalist" notion to be about as plausible as full blown communism. Being that government is by far the greatest health care customer, increased costs of that particular service has the right to be reimbursed via excise taxation, a constitutional allowance. Watching people pay $7 per pack of cigarettes in Chicago has convinced me government has not taxed this excise to an unprofitable position.
    Those that worship at the tit of Art Laffer have missed the crux of what libertarian stands for. I could care less if you have some brilliant scheme to maximize revenue, I'm dealing with property rights.

  9. #219
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    Re: House Passes 2009 SCHIP Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by ARealConservative View Post
    Do you have similar views on inheritance tax?
    No. Completely different concepts.

    Viewing individuals as revenue streams is nothing short of servitude. I want to see how far you are willing to slip down this slope on your crusade against tobacco.
    If you want, i can find some tales of the poor families who were effected because mom died @ 35 due to dads second hand smoke.

    This is why I would prefer you quote my words as you are stretching what I wrote. The amount of money the government spends per person is effected my their length of life, so any argument that it costs the government money when people smoke is inherently false. An individual that chooses risky behavior alone does not cost the government a dime, nor does he have the power to emand entitlements...they were willingly giving independent of his decision to engage in risky behavior.
    It is ok to view someone as a laggard of the system, and that their death reduces costs, but if someone dies before they reach retirement age, its immorally off the table?


    Those that worship at the tit of Art Laffer have missed the crux of what libertarian stands for. I could care less if you have some brilliant scheme to maximize revenue, I'm dealing with property rights.
    I could care less about revenue as well, just making a point. As i said before, and what you have still failed to address (my main point), TRI increases the cost of health care overall. If you are a health care consumer at any point, is it of your interest to want to reduce the costs of health care?

    BTW, excise taxation is constitutional and has been for over 200 years...
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

  10. #220
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    Re: House Passes 2009 SCHIP Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    Hey, personally I would rather ban it completely.
    Why? Because you disagree and do not understand smoking?
    "An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it." - Gandhi

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