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Thread: Challenges loom as Obama seeks space weapons ban

  1. #41
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    Re: Challenges loom as Obama seeks space weapons ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Peace is the absence of conflict. Deterrence creates an absence of colflict.
    If you are fighting someone in a bar and I hold a gun to your head and tell you stop is that peace?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    And what about those that do not agree? What creates peace with them?
    What is there not to agree with? Why would they need weapons they don't ever need to use?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Adn you aslo assume that that the contries in that agreement can actually act effectively against those that are NOT in agreement.
    Note that this creates conflict.
    I am assuming that counties that do not want to start wars will be in agreement yes. None of this has moved forward so we don't know who and who will not agree to this.


    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Yes... and the countries that can have an advantage over those that cannot. This is a 'positive'.

    1: deterrence
    2: Advantage over the other countries that do not have said weapons
    If the country doesn't have the ability to create such weapons we already have an advantage over them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Nuclear weapons have kept the peace since 1947.
    Speculation. Though we can also speculate they have caused the most tension and have led to military defense spending and thoughts on how to kill each other faster.


    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    The notion that the only reason countries like Iran and NK want nukes is because we have them is absurdly and patent silly. If we were to give up out nukes, NK and Iran (etc) would laugh and keep working on theirs.
    Of course they would because the weapons already exist. I am talking about stopping them before they exist.
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    Re: Challenges loom as Obama seeks space weapons ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Gibberish View Post
    If you are fighting someone in a bar and I hold a gun to your head and tell you stop is that peace?
    Depends. Do I stop? If so, then yes.

    If you define "peace" as "an absence of an actionable conflict of interest" then peace will never exist.

    What is there not to agree with? Why would they need weapons they don't ever need to use?
    You have 2 sets of countries:
    1 set agrees not to advance their military measures
    1 set does not.
    What brings peace between the 2 sets, and among the 2nd set?

    I am assuming that counties that do not want to start wars will be in agreement yes. None of this has moved forward so we don't know who and who will not agree to this.
    You didn't address what I said.
    -The countries that agree to not have weapons in space must actually be able to do someting against those that do for their agreement to have any effect
    -By threatening to act against the countries that have weapons in space, you are creating conflict, not peace.

    If the country doesn't have the ability to create such weapons we already have an advantage over them.
    So? More advantage is better than less advantage.
    And so, having weapons in space is a 'positive'.

    Speculation.
    Not at all. Deterrence works.

    Of course they would because the weapons already exist. I am talking about stopping them before they exist.
    So, you agree that the notion that the only reason countries like Iran and NK want nukes is because we have them is absurdly and patently silly. Thank you.
    Last edited by Goobieman; 01-29-09 at 11:13 AM.

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    Re: Challenges loom as Obama seeks space weapons ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Gibberish View Post
    Yes so lets all make the biggest guns possible and who ever makes the biggest gun of them all and fires first wins.
    Not allowing yourself to get a gun while the other guy has no such constraint is the recipe for death.

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    Re: Challenges loom as Obama seeks space weapons ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Gibberish View Post
    Peace should be obtained through acceptance and agreement, not through fear.

    If the powers of this world all agree to not utilize weapons in space and also to act against those that do this world will be a much better place then if everyone had a few thousand nukes attached to satellites pointing at each other.
    Good idea. Then if ever an astroid is hurling towards us we won't be able to do **** about it.

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    Re: Challenges loom as Obama seeks space weapons ban

    Quote Originally Posted by scourge99 View Post
    And we should all fight like gentleman by standing in lines and taking turns shooting volleys at one another. That is how wars are fought.

    This ban is senseless. If space weapons become practical and/or useful then China, Russia, the US, or any other major power is going to build them regardless of treaties.

    Treaties go out the window when inevitable war occurs. The winners prosecute the losers for broken promises.
    Historical precedence would surgest that Russia and China would follow the ban as its in their interest to do. Even during the Cold War America and Russia agreed to limit the production of certain types of weapons because spending a **** load of money on the arms race wasnt helping either side. So in a situation with alot less tension such as todays you would expect the same to happen.

    The huge amount of money that weapons in space would necesitate is in everyones interest to avoid but at the same time no one wants another country to dominate that arena so theres an enivitable tendancy towards insecurity and competition. Agreeing not to enter this arena is in everyones interest.

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    Re: Challenges loom as Obama seeks space weapons ban

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    Not allowing yourself to get a gun while the other guy has no such constraint is the recipe for death.
    Not allowing others to own guns either would be part of the deal.

    Like I said, this is all assuming a majority of the major powers are in agreement with this. If we are alone in not wanting to build weapons in space then we will be forced to build weapons in space.
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    Re: Challenges loom as Obama seeks space weapons ban

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou View Post
    Good idea. Then if ever an astroid is hurling towards us we won't be able to do **** about it.
    Bruce Willis will just have to get more creative the next time he needs to stop an asteroid.
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    Re: Challenges loom as Obama seeks space weapons ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Red_Dave View Post
    Historical precedence would surgest that Russia and China would follow the ban as its in their interest to do. Even during the Cold War America and Russia agreed to limit the production of certain types of weapons because spending a **** load of money on the arms race wasnt helping either side. So in a situation with alot less tension such as todays you would expect the same to happen.

    The huge amount of money that weapons in space would necesitate is in everyones interest to avoid but at the same time no one wants another country to dominate that arena so theres an enivitable tendancy towards insecurity and competition. Agreeing not to enter this arena is in everyones interest.
    I agree.... But, recently China made a grandous display of its ability to knock satellites out of the sky! Make no mistake. This was a message to our military that our non lethal military systems are vulnerable, even in space. This a major concern of our military which has recently invested so much on high-tech communication and battle management systems where satellites are likely a major player of combat command and intelligience.

    Space has many advantages as it is the soverign territory of no country. Satellites can easily spy, eavesdrop, relay data, send data, or receive data, and provide immensly significant intel on countries all from the safety of space. As these systems become more complex countries will need ways to counter such technology during conflict. Weaponized satellites, for defense or offense, seem inevitable as the advantages of space systems increase. That is, such technology is too powerful to leave intact for your enemy to utilize freely.
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    Re: Challenges loom as Obama seeks space weapons ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Gibberish View Post
    Not allowing others to own guns either would be part of the deal.

    Like I said, this is all assuming a majority of the major powers are in agreement with this. If we are alone in not wanting to build weapons in space then we will be forced to build weapons in space.
    Hehehe, you're as naive as Obama if you think a piece of paper will keep potential enemies from exploiting this weakness.

    The greatest threat to our military strength is the loss of our communication, navigation and spy sats. Everyone knows this, and only a foolish country would say "Yeah, hey we'll agree not to create space based weapons."

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    Re: Challenges loom as Obama seeks space weapons ban

    If Obama succeeds, the space invaders win!
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