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Thread: Pope move ignites Holocaust row

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    Re: Pope move ignites Holocaust row

    I'm not a Catholic but I think the pope did the right thing. Denying the Holocaust is so ridiculous it's laughable that people get all worked up over it. Their idiots, that doesn't mean they shouldn't be allowed in a Church.
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    Re: Pope move ignites Holocaust row

    Is denying the holocaust hate speech?
    Quote Originally Posted by faithful_servant View Post
    Being a psychiatric patient does not mean that you are mentally ill.



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    Re: Pope move ignites Holocaust row

    Quote Originally Posted by independent_thinker2002 View Post
    Is denying the holocaust hate speech?
    If it is done out of hatred for Jews, yes.

    If it is done out of legitimate historical inquiry, no.
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    Re: Pope move ignites Holocaust row

    It is interesting to see how atheists in their mentality cannot even imagine existence of a freedom of thoughts and ideas. It is also interesting to see that Catholic Church still allows freedom of thoughts and ideas on many secular matters. It is very interesting to see that nobody has ever cared to see by himself what really the guy says on the matter. It is quite astonishing I would say, - to see how people follow any BS printed by media without looking at a problem by themselves.

    It is impossible to say if this guy is a denier or an anti-Semite. He submits his reasoning. It is all wrong, actually he does not even define Holocaust or claims of Holocaust correctly, but it is reasoning. People who believe in Holocaust as well often do not know what it is. It is certainly not killing 6 million of Jews in [only]gas chambers [by only cyanide]. It is quite possible that his human perception does not allow him to imagine such an inhumanity to be real. As well he may be rightfully concerned about the guilt of Germans, when anybody who has a reason shouldn’t associate it with anything specifically German.

    And of course it has nothing to do to the position of the Catholic Church towards holocaust, as one can see from the interview he is actually condemned strongly by his fellow Catholics, - he mentions a bishop….


    It is interesting to see how it is always a need to bring in homosexuality...
    Islam - bring in Christianity,
    Christianity - bring in homosexuality... It is not like after that one has to prove that there is something wrong with homosexuality - it starts from demonstrating its needs.

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    Re: Pope move ignites Holocaust row

    Question: If the teachings in Leviticus were superseded by the teachings of Jesus then why is homosexuality still considered such a grievous sin? Is it because Jesus specifically affirmed it as a sin or is it simply an instance of the Church picking and choosing which segments of the OT they wish to abide by?

    Genuinely curious.

    P.S. - I'm glad the mood of this discussion was able to move in a favorable direction. We can disagree with one another without being disrespectful or ignorant. Civility does not have to preclude constructive criticism.

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    Re: Pope move ignites Holocaust row

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    Question: If the teachings in Leviticus were superseded by the teachings of Jesus then why is homosexuality still considered such a grievous sin? Is it because Jesus specifically affirmed it as a sin or is it simply an instance of the Church picking and choosing which segments of the OT they wish to abide by?
    This is from the Cathechism of the Catholic Church

    Quote Originally Posted by CCC

    Chastity and homosexuality

    2357
    Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity,141 tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered."142 They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.

    2358
    The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God's will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.

    2359
    Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.

    141: Cf. Gen 19:1-29; Rom 1:24-27; 1 Cor 6:10; 1 Tim 1:10.
    142: CDF, Persona humana 8.
    If you have a Bible handy, read the three New Testament references referred to in footnote 141.

    Genuinely curious.

    P.S. - I'm glad the mood of this discussion was able to move in a favorable direction. We can disagree with one another without being disrespectful or ignorant. Civility does not have to preclude constructive criticism.
    So am I. Some of those early posts were HIGHLY offensive.
    Last edited by ludahai; 01-25-09 at 07:41 AM. Reason: Format problems
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    Re: Pope move ignites Holocaust row

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    Question: If the teachings in Leviticus were superseded by the teachings of Jesus then why is homosexuality still considered such a grievous sin? Is it because Jesus specifically affirmed it as a sin or is it simply an instance of the Church picking and choosing which segments of the OT they wish to abide by?

    Genuinely curious.

    P.S. - I'm glad the mood of this discussion was able to move in a favorable direction. We can disagree with one another without being disrespectful or ignorant. Civility does not have to preclude constructive criticism.
    It is a new Testement teaching also--as well as contradicts the nature of mankind's design--(IOW--contradicts Natural Law).

    NT verses condemning homosexuality.
    Romans 1--all of it, but particularly 27
    [26] For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. Their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural,
    [27] and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in their own persons the due penalty for their error.
    [28] And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a base mind and to improper conduct.


    1 Corinthians 6:9
    [9] Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither the immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor sexual perverts,
    [10] nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor robbers will inherit the kingdom of God.


    1 Timothy 1:9
    [8] Now we know that the law is good, if any one uses it lawfully,
    [9] understanding this, that the law is not laid down for the just but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
    [10] immoral persons, sodomites, kidnapers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine,
    [11] in accordance with the glorious gospel of the blessed God with which I have been entrusted.



    EDIT: Aw snap! I see that ludahai's Catechism quote has those verses listed in the footnotes!
    Last edited by Felicity; 01-25-09 at 09:52 AM.

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    Re: Pope move ignites Holocaust row

    Quote Originally Posted by Felicity View Post
    This whole thread is hate speech and I reported it as such.

    18. Hate Messages
    Hate messages delivered via threads, posts, signatures, or PM's are forbidden at Debate Politics. The Moderator Team defines a hate message as any willful wording intended to ridicule, debase, degrade, intimidate, or incite violence and/or prejudicial actions against a group of people based on their race, gender, ethnicity, national origin, religion, sexual orientation, or disability. Determined violations of this rule will be subject to incur an immediate revocation of membership.
    Oh please! You're trying to censor people's opinion against the Pope. What he did has caused a controversy and it is being debated around the world.

    I don't see you telling us you've reported the seemingly endless amount of threads that are blatantly anti-Muslim or even anti-atheist.

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    Re: Pope move ignites Holocaust row

    Quote Originally Posted by Family Guy View Post
    Oh please! You're trying to censor people's opinion against the Pope. What he did has caused a controversy and it is being debated around the world.

    I don't see you telling us you've reported the seemingly endless amount of threads that are blatantly anti-Muslim or even anti-atheist.
    If you read Felicity's later post, it was not the opinion of the Pope, it was some of the other posts on the first page of this thread that were highly offensive, one of which was later apologized for by the person who made the statement.
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    Re: Pope move ignites Holocaust row

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    Read the thread. It isn't the comments about the Pope. Felicity summed it up pretty well. Clear hate speech and a clear violation of the rule. Of course, since it is PC to be anti-Catholic, it will possibly be ignored.
    Isn't it against the rules to publicly demand that Mods take action? Aren't complaints, by rule, supposed to be made in private and not reported to the general public?

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