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Thread: Pope move ignites Holocaust row

  1. #51
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    Re: Pope move ignites Holocaust row

    Quote Originally Posted by Arch Enemy View Post
    According to recent events, Jesus didn't eat with homosexuals (in reference to the position of the Church on homosexuality)
    How do you get THAT conclusion?
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  2. #52
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    Re: Pope move ignites Holocaust row

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    How do you get THAT conclusion?
    I was using the metaphor that Felicity was going with. That whole "Jesus eating with whores" to mean "The Church accepting whores".
    "I do not underestimate the ability of fanatical groups of terrorists to kill and destroy, but they do not threaten the life of the nation. Whether we would survive Hitler hung in the balance, but there is no doubt that we shall survive al-Qa'ida." -- Lord Hoffmann

  3. #53
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    Re: Pope move ignites Holocaust row

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Of a Bishop who is a holocaust denier.
    What does denial of the Honocaust have to do with one's religious duties?

    Yes.
    Then you would know that ones views of a historical issue has nothing to do with religious duties and receiving the Sacrament.

    Strawman.
    Not a strawman. Making a comparison. That you have no response to it does not make it a strawman.

    Continuation of a strawman.
    See above. One does not have to agree with the CHurch on NON-RELIGIOUS issue to be a good Catholic or even a good Bishop.

    Rehabilitation of a holocaust denier is much ado about nothing? If this guy had been a Bishop from China claiming the Tiananmen Square Massacre never happened you'd be the first one on this forum blowing a casket over this.
    I would condemn the position, just as I condemn the position of denying the Holocaust. However, I would not argue that it is appropriate to deny someone the Sacrament over it.

    More strawman.
    Is this your stock response when you can't counter a point?

    3rd strawman.
    You are wrong. POsition on the Holocaust is NOT a religious matter and is simply NOT grounds for excommunication.

    But here Ludahai. Considering I'm not jfuh I'll help you out so that you don't have to come up with strawmen ad nauseum on this topic :

    Considering the role the Catholic Church played during WWII and the rocky position Pius XII held it would seem to me like the church who's acknowledged the horrors of the Holocaust would have it in it's best interests to not rehabilitate somebody who is not only famous enough to get on a country's national T.V. station and talk about his beliefs, opinions etc but is also firmly in opposition to a matter the CC has stated it's opinion on MANY times.
    Sounds like someone who is completely unaware of the work of the Catholic Church in working AGAINST the Holocaust and saving as many Jewish people as it could. Read some more on the topic and then get back to me. The Catholic Church did more than any other single non-governmental organization to HELP Jews during the Holocaust.

    Then again, why let a few facts get in the way of your anti-Catholic rantings.
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  4. #54
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    Re: Pope move ignites Holocaust row

    WOW, Arch Enemy...there are some serious issues with what is said and the conclusions you draw based upon what was said. You are arguing with stuff you make up in your head--not with what is actually said. Very much like what you despise about the Church and the pope is a caricature of what it really teaches and who he really is.

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    Re: Pope move ignites Holocaust row

    Quote Originally Posted by Felicity View Post
    WOW, Arch Enemy...there are some serious issues with what is said and the conclusions you draw based upon what was said. You are arguing with stuff you make up in your head--not with what is actually said. Very much like what you despise about the Church and the pope is a caricature of what it really teaches and who he really is.


    Then help me?
    Like I said in my earlier post. I've never walked a mile, or ten feet, or three paces, in the shoes of a Catholic follower, so part of my despising could very well be from ignorance.
    "I do not underestimate the ability of fanatical groups of terrorists to kill and destroy, but they do not threaten the life of the nation. Whether we would survive Hitler hung in the balance, but there is no doubt that we shall survive al-Qa'ida." -- Lord Hoffmann

  6. #56
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    Re: Pope move ignites Holocaust row

    If you read the OP article, only ONE of the four bishops rehabilitated said anything about the Holocaust. However, the reason for his excommunication HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THE HOLOCAUST. That is manufactured by the BBC and other Catholic haters.

    Read a more objective article, and you will see that it is all to do about TRADITIONALISM in the Church and NOTHING about the Holocaust.

    link

    Pope Benedict XVI has cancelled the excommunication of four bishops consecrated by rebel French archbishop Marcel Lefebvre, in a new bid to heal a 20-year schism with traditionalists in the Roman Catholic Church.

    The Church published an edict lifting the 1998 sanction on Lefevreís successor Bernard Fellay and three other bishops in his breakaway conservative movement, Bernard de Tissier de Mallerais, Alfonso de Gallerata and Richard Williamson.

    Lefebvre, who died in 1991, was excommunicated in 1988 by Benedictís predecessor John Paul II for having consecrated the bishops in defiance of the Vaticanís authority.

    Lefebvre had led a schism from the Church over the more ecumenical approach reflected in the Vatican II reforms of the 1960s and in particular the abandonment of the traditional Latin mass.
    Not that this kernel of truth will get in the way of the Catholic-haters, but here it is.
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  7. #57
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    Re: Pope move ignites Holocaust row

    Quote Originally Posted by Arch Enemy View Post
    I have some friends who were kicked out, and refused communion because they were Catholic and were "seen holding hands with people of the same sex".
    Homosexuality IS grounds for the denial of communion. Though, as I don't know the specifics of the situation, I am in no position to make a judgement on that case.
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    Re: Pope move ignites Holocaust row

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    Homosexuality IS grounds for the denial of communion. Though, as I don't know the specifics of the situation, I am in no position to make a judgement on that case.
    Why is homosexuality grounds for denial of communion, yet the laws of Leviticus aren't?
    "I do not underestimate the ability of fanatical groups of terrorists to kill and destroy, but they do not threaten the life of the nation. Whether we would survive Hitler hung in the balance, but there is no doubt that we shall survive al-Qa'ida." -- Lord Hoffmann

  9. #59
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    Re: Pope move ignites Holocaust row

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    This guy wasn't born a Bishop. He can be a Christian all he wants. He wasn't born a Bishop. Now save the Sunday school for somebody who cares. That the church allows him to keep any position in the church would be unheard in the political sector or private sector.
    The original excommunication HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THE HOLOCAUST!

    How many of them are Bishops?
    Strawman. See. Two can play this game. Again: irrevant. The excommunication had nothing to do with the Holocaust.

    Strawman.
    Says he with no response to the point made.

    3 strawman.
    Are you out of original counter-points today?

    Who said I was anti Catholic? 'Religious Victim Card' much?
    Wasn't mentioning any one person specifically, though there have been several bigoted posts in this thread.
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  10. #60
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    Re: Pope move ignites Holocaust row

    Quote Originally Posted by Arch Enemy View Post
    I was using the metaphor that Felicity was going with. That whole "Jesus eating with whores" to mean "The Church accepting whores".
    I think you were mis-understanding the attempted metaphor, but I will allow Felicity to speak for herself as she is very good at going this.
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