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Thread: Pope move ignites Holocaust row

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    Re: Pope move ignites Holocaust row

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    We don't get to choose our brothers and sisters in Christ. There are Holocaust deniers everywhere. This is NOT the position of the church. Being a Holocaust denier, as disgusting as that is, is NOT grounds for denial of the Sacrament. This is such a NON-ISSUE it is insane. The anti-Catholics are really grasping for straws on this one. It is amusing even if it wasn't accompanied by the same bigoted remarks the anti-Catholics always come up with regarding altar boys and the like.
    Furthermore--who did Jesus associate with? He ate with tax collectors and prostitutes. Mercy and love was his message to bring sinful people to repentance.

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    Re: Pope move ignites Holocaust row

    Apparently while i was absent from the debatepolitics forum there was an update that doesn't allow for editing a post after 20 min.

    So, please, disregard my 2nd post on this thread. As it is disrespectful to the Catholics of this forum. My apologies.
    "I do not underestimate the ability of fanatical groups of terrorists to kill and destroy, but they do not threaten the life of the nation. Whether we would survive Hitler hung in the balance, but there is no doubt that we shall survive al-Qa'ida." -- Lord Hoffmann

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    Re: Pope move ignites Holocaust row

    Quote Originally Posted by Felicity View Post
    Furthermore--who did Jesus associate with? He ate with tax collectors and prostitutes. Mercy and love was his message to bring sinful people to repentance.
    According to recent events, Jesus didn't eat with homosexuals (in reference to the position of the Church on homosexuality)
    "I do not underestimate the ability of fanatical groups of terrorists to kill and destroy, but they do not threaten the life of the nation. Whether we would survive Hitler hung in the balance, but there is no doubt that we shall survive al-Qa'ida." -- Lord Hoffmann

  4. #34
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    Re: Pope move ignites Holocaust row

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    All the Papacy did was lift excommunication.
    Of a Bishop who is a holocaust denier.

    Do you know what this means?
    Yes.

    Does this mean that everyone who receives the Sacrament on Sundays agrees with EVERYTHING the Papacy teaches?
    Strawman.

    I don't agree with the Pope on everything, yet in a few hours, I will be partaking of the Eucharistic Sacrament.
    Continuation of a strawman.

    THis is much ado about nothing.
    Rehabilitation of a holocaust denier is much ado about nothing? If this guy had been a Bishop from China claiming the Tiananmen Square Massacre never happened you'd be the first one on this forum blowing a casket over this.

    Unless of course you believe that people don't have the right to believe what they want to.
    More strawman.

    This is NOT a religious matter, thus it is not grounds for excommunication.
    3rd strawman. But here Ludahai. Considering I'm not jfuh I'll help you out so that you don't have to come up with strawmen ad nauseum on this topic :

    Considering the role the Catholic Church played during WWII and the rocky position Pius XII held it would seem to me like the church who's acknowledged the horrors of the Holocaust would have it in it's best interests to not rehabilitate somebody who is not only famous enough to get on a country's national T.V. station and talk about his beliefs, opinions etc but is also firmly in opposition to a matter the CC has stated it's opinion on MANY times.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Pope move ignites Holocaust row

    Quote Originally Posted by Arch Enemy View Post
    Okay dokey.

    That's all someone has to say, that my comments are without respect to the person.
    It's all well and good if you wish to personally disrespect the Pope or his office so long as it maintains a semblance of maturity and objectivity. I think what Felicity and others are taking issue with (and rightly so) is the stereotyping of Catholic clergy as pedophiles.

    Technically, I'm not really a Catholic but I still feel the manner in which many, many people view the Church is terribly unfair and derisive. If you fancy yourself as some kind of objective thinker you would do well not to hop on the Catholic-hater bandwagon as have so many others. Almost every time people in this forum make a stink over the Church doing something they perceive as wrong or hypocritical there is a rational and ethical argument to explain it; the bigots simply chose to ignore any such explanations. Don't be like them. Think critically.

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    Re: Pope move ignites Holocaust row

    Quote Originally Posted by Arch Enemy View Post
    According to recent events, Jesus didn't eat with homosexuals (in reference to the position of the Church on homosexuality)
    That is actually a debatable point. He ate with sinners that we know. Adultry theft prostitution homosexual all the same in the eyes of God,

    Moe

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    Re: Pope move ignites Holocaust row

    Quote Originally Posted by Felicity View Post
    This whole thread is hate speech and I reported it as such.

    18. Hate Messages
    Hate messages delivered via threads, posts, signatures, or PM's are forbidden at Debate Politics. The Moderator Team defines a hate message as any willful wording intended to ridicule, debase, degrade, intimidate, or incite violence and/or prejudicial actions against a group of people based on their race, gender, ethnicity, national origin, religion, sexual orientation, or disability. Determined violations of this rule will be subject to incur an immediate revocation of membership.
    Amercan society has adopted rules and sytems of hate in my lifetime....PC,gender protectionism,affirmative action /and the rules there of..., a veritable police state,a gag order on the first ammendment...etc. Look Out...membership will be falling like a rock if we try to express oursleves in here. I tip my hat to the moderators for being leanient in enforceing this rule #18.

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    Re: Pope move ignites Holocaust row

    Quote Originally Posted by moe View Post
    I am sure that there are other Christians that are holocaust deniers for what ever reasons. Should I disfellowship with them or should I try to open their eye's?
    Depends. If they change their minds. Go for it. This guy is like 60. Doubt it'll happen now that he's old and decrepit.

    Anybody can tear something down. It takes skill and patience to build something up.

    Moe
    Save it for church.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Pope move ignites Holocaust row

    Quote Originally Posted by Arch Enemy View Post
    According to recent events, Jesus didn't eat with homosexuals (in reference to the position of the Church on homosexuality)
    That is just wrong. You hold the Church in such low regard out of ignorance of what she actually teaches:

    Quote Originally Posted by Catechism of the Catholic Church
    2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God's will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.

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    Re: Pope move ignites Holocaust row

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    It's all well and good if you wish to personally disrespect the Pope or his office so long as it maintains a semblance of maturity and objectivity. I think what Felicity and others are taking issue with (and rightly so) is the stereotyping of Catholic clergy as pedophiles.

    Technically, I'm not really a Catholic but I still feel the manner in which many, many people view the Church is terribly unfair and derisive. If you fancy yourself as some kind of objective thinker you would do well not to hop on the Catholic-hater bandwagon as have so many others. Almost every time people in this forum make a stink over the Church doing something they perceive as wrong or hypocritical there is a rational and ethical argument to explain it; the bigots simply chose to ignore any such explanations. Don't be like them. Think critically.

    Sorry. I have very little respect for the Catholic church as a regime (there are of course great people within the Catholic church as there are everywhere).

    There is no critical thinking involved in the Pope able to, to continue this "Jesus eating with" metaphor, eat with a Nazi-Sympathizer and Holocaust denier, but not a homosexual.
    "I do not underestimate the ability of fanatical groups of terrorists to kill and destroy, but they do not threaten the life of the nation. Whether we would survive Hitler hung in the balance, but there is no doubt that we shall survive al-Qa'ida." -- Lord Hoffmann

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