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Thread: Pope move ignites Holocaust row

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    Re: Pope move ignites Holocaust row

    Quote Originally Posted by conquer View Post
    Unrepentant Nazi?

    You don't have to be a Nazi supporter to understand that the gas chambers never existed, you only must trust in solid science to verify what happened in those concentrations camps...and the answer given by scientific evidence is that the holocaust is a hoax.

    What is going on between the Pope and this priest appears to be that they are creating the scandal to spread out the scientific evidence showing the holocaust hoax...a smart move...
    A Challenger Appears!!!

    "An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it." - Gandhi

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    Re: Pope move ignites Holocaust row

    Quote Originally Posted by conquer View Post
    Unrepentant Nazi?

    The priest saying that the holocaust never happened is based in an excellent scientific report made by investigating the residual of gas in the walls of the chambers. The leader of this investigation is an expert by the fact that he was in charge of building gas chambers here in US to be used for execution of criminals.

    The priest is practically a "lover of science", this priest appears to reject the great propaganda made for so many years that millions of Jews died in such assumed gas chambers.

    You don't have to be a Nazi supporter to understand that the gas chambers never existed, you only must trust in solid science to verify what happened in those concentrations camps...and the answer given by scientific evidence is that the holocaust is a hoax.

    What is going on between the Pope and this priest appears to be that they are creating the scandal to spread out the scientific evidence showing the holocaust hoax...a smart move...
    I sincerely hope you aren't referring to the absolutely laughable study that was put out by Fred A. Leuchter Jr. Yes, I saw the Errol Morris documentary Mr. Death too and it turns out that the scrapings that he illegally got from the walls of the gas chambers were insufficiently collected. They found no traces of cyanide because he dug too deep and got more of the wall than he was supposed to have gotten. Not to mention the fact that he wasn't using professional equipment to get his samples and it wasn't a controlled. Do yourself a favor and watch the movie if you haven't already and you'll see how much of a crackpot and a fraud Fred A. Leuchter Jr. really is.

    And here's more from the Wikipedia entry on Leuchter:

    Lab manager James Roth swore under oath to the results at the trial.[1] It was only after he got off the stand that Roth learned what the trial was about. In an interview for Morris's film, Roth states that cyanide would have formed an extremely fine layer on the walls, to the depth of one-tenth of a human hair. Leuchter had taken samples of indeterminate thickness (he is seen in Morris's film hammering at the bricks with a rock hammer).[1] Not informed of this, Roth had pulverized the entire samples, thus severely diluting the cyanide-containing layer of each sample with an indeterminate amount of brick, varying for each sample. Roth offers the analogy that the tests were like "analyzing paint on a wall by analyzing the timber that's behind it."[1]

    Leuchter did not examine the walls of the gas chambers until fifty years after they had been used; his critics note that it would have been virtually impossible to discover any cyanide at all using his method. In fact, tests conducted on ventilation grates immediately after the end of the war showed substantial amounts of cyanide. The chambers were demolished by the Nazis when they abandoned Auschwitz, and the facilities Leuchter examined were, in fact, partially reconstructed. Leuchter was unaware that part of the camp and chambers were reconstructed, so he had no way of knowing if the bricks he was scraping were actually part of the original gas chamber.
    Last edited by Dr_Patrick; 01-26-09 at 03:46 PM.

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    Re: Pope move ignites Holocaust row

    Quote Originally Posted by conquer View Post
    Unrepentant Nazi?

    The priest saying that the holocaust never happened is based in an excellent scientific report made by investigating the residual of gas in the walls of the chambers. The leader of this investigation is an expert by the fact that he was in charge of building gas chambers here in US to be used for execution of criminals.

    The priest is practically a "lover of science", this priest appears to reject the great propaganda made for so many years that millions of Jews died in such assumed gas chambers.

    You don't have to be a Nazi supporter to understand that the gas chambers never existed, you only must trust in solid science to verify what happened in those concentrations camps...and the answer given by scientific evidence is that the holocaust is a hoax.

    What is going on between the Pope and this priest appears to be that they are creating the scandal to spread out the scientific evidence showing the holocaust hoax...a smart move...
    Lies. The Holocaust was a real and horrific human tragedy that words cannot even begin to express.

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    Re: Pope move ignites Holocaust row

    Vatican confirms former bishop Williamson violated Church teachings with his holocaust denial...

    From Haaretz:

    The Vatican said Monday that comments by a recently rehabilitated bishop that no Jews were gassed during the Holocaust were unacceptable and violate Church teaching...

    One of the key documents issued by Vatican II was Nostra Aetate, which said the Church deplored all forms of anti-Semitism. The document revolutionized the Church's relations with Jews.

    In the article, L'Osservatore said Benedict and his predecessors had all made clear the Church's teaching on Nostra Aetate in documents, actions and speeches and that its contents are not debatable for Catholics.


    As stated earlier, I believe the Vatican's decision to reverse the excommunication of former bishop Williamson was a mistake.

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    Re: Pope move ignites Holocaust row

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    Vatican confirms former bishop Williamson violated Church teachings with his holocaust denial...

    From Haaretz:

    The Vatican said Monday that comments by a recently rehabilitated bishop that no Jews were gassed during the Holocaust were unacceptable and violate Church teaching...

    One of the key documents issued by Vatican II was Nostra Aetate, which said the Church deplored all forms of anti-Semitism. The document revolutionized the Church's relations with Jews.

    In the article, L'Osservatore said Benedict and his predecessors had all made clear the Church's teaching on Nostra Aetate in documents, actions and speeches and that its contents are not debatable for Catholics.


    As stated earlier, I believe the Vatican's decision to reverse the excommunication of former bishop Williamson was a mistake.
    But the Pope is infallible.
    Quote Originally Posted by faithful_servant View Post
    Being a psychiatric patient does not mean that you are mentally ill.



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    Re: Pope move ignites Holocaust row

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    Vatican confirms former bishop Williamson violated Church teachings with his holocaust denial...

    From Haaretz:

    The Vatican said Monday that comments by a recently rehabilitated bishop that no Jews were gassed during the Holocaust were unacceptable and violate Church teaching...

    One of the key documents issued by Vatican II was Nostra Aetate, which said the Church deplored all forms of anti-Semitism. The document revolutionized the Church's relations with Jews.

    In the article, L'Osservatore said Benedict and his predecessors had all made clear the Church's teaching on Nostra Aetate in documents, actions and speeches and that its contents are not debatable for Catholics.


    As stated earlier, I believe the Vatican's decision to reverse the excommunication of former bishop Williamson was a mistake.
    I understand that you think that, Don, but do you recognize that it is a technicality--just because one acts or believes something that contradicts a teaching of the Church--even if that teaching is not debatable, that does not necessarily place them in schism and preclude them from the Sacraments. There are essential tenets that one can be excommunicated for for rejecting, but there are many many social teachings that are true teachings of the Church but not something that rises to the level of "pure dogma" and therefore is not something that is schismatic.

    It is true sin--it truly separates the person from the unity of the Church, but it does not break the bond of being a part of the Body of Christ. It makes them sinners, not necessarily in schism. They are wrong most definitely--but schism is a very specific term and I provided links explaining it's meaning and the circumstances.

    The specific "pure dogma" that put the group in schism was refusal to submit to the spiritual authority of the Bishop of Rome. They apparently rectified that issue that put them in schism, but that does not solve all the errors of their teaching. So they are not in schism anymore, but they are in error concerning the Church's non-negotiable social teaching.

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    Re: Pope move ignites Holocaust row

    Moderator's Warning:
    Pope move ignites Holocaust rowBefore this goes any further...

    This is debate politics, not debate poster or debate moderation. The attacks against posters, the discussion of what is or isn't a rule 18 or 6a violation, etc, doesn't need to go on past this post.

    Stick to the topic please (and thanks to those that stopped taking bait of people trying to continue this off topic line of conversation and decided to get back and stay on the topic)

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    Re: Pope move ignites Holocaust row

    Quote Originally Posted by independent_thinker2002 View Post
    But the Pope is infallible.
    Only when speaking ex cathedra.
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    Re: Pope move ignites Holocaust row

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post

    As stated earlier, I believe the Vatican's decision to reverse the excommunication of former bishop Williamson was a mistake.
    The original excommunication had nothing to do with alleged Holocaust denial.
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    Re: Pope move ignites Holocaust row

    Quote Originally Posted by dclxvinoise View Post
    I sincerely hope you aren't referring to the absolutely laughable study that was put out by Fred A. Leuchter Jr. Yes, I saw the Errol Morris documentary Mr. Death too and it turns out that the scrapings that he illegally got from the walls of the gas chambers were insufficiently collected. They found no traces of cyanide because he dug too deep and got more of the wall than he was supposed to have gotten. Not to mention the fact that he wasn't using professional equipment to get his samples and it wasn't a controlled. Do yourself a favor and watch the movie if you haven't already and you'll see how much of a crackpot and a fraud Fred A. Leuchter Jr. really is.

    And here's more from the Wikipedia entry on Leuchter:
    Nahhh

    Leuchter knew more about gas chambers than anyone around, he built gas chambers, you cannot challenge him.

    Gas Chambers: The Leuchter Report Vindicated



    Based on spurious knowledge, inducing specious logic which leads to false conclusions, Pressac's attacks on The Leuchter Report stem from faulty scientific and technical understanding, and thus utterly fail to demolish it. As already noted, since the publication of Truth Prevails, a study by Poland's leading forensic institute has given strong corroboration to Leuchter's findings, and thus to his methodology.

    Pressac's ad hominem attacks on Leuchter and Faurisson, who by daring to subject the gas chamber myth to scientific and technical investigation, have risked their livelihoods, their personal freedom, and even their lives, will, one hopes, strike future generations of readers as no less obscurantist than the attacks directed at Galileo, at Darwin, or at the geneticists who dared to defy Lysenko during the Stalin years. May The Leuchter Report help to free, not only the Western world, but the entire literate world from the chains of an oppressive illusion -- the lie of the Hitler gas chambers.
    Last edited by conquer; 01-27-09 at 10:47 AM.

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