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Thread: Official: UN may prosecute Bush administration, regardless of US action

  1. #161
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    Re: Official: UN may prosecute Bush administration, regardless of US action

    Quote Originally Posted by Maximus Zeebra View Post
    I never claimed to know every little detail, but you said I know nothing about US poltics, just because I do not know a tiny detail..
    Selection of nominees is headly a tiny detail.

    Thats just a lame way to debate, like me saying you know nothing about politics in Europe because you do not know about the labor party meeting in the smallest and most remote place in Norway. It was just a silly joke and me trying to demonstrate how lame this was becoming.
    A single party in a minor European country is NOT the same as understanding how the two major parties in the world's second largest democracy and the world's main economic and military power selects it's nominees for office. Nice try, but FAIL!

    That link is quite interesting details btw, but still it does not prove the process once you register as a primary candidate in either party, but its satisfying enough evidence for me actually. I will from here on assume you are right on the issue, but really bash you if it turns out to be wrong. Thank you for the link, FINALLY!!!!
    This is the THIRD different link I have provided and others have provided linkes and you have yet to provide counter examples. If there was an example where the party leadership had disqualified a candidate, you should have been able to come up with one. Thanks for the belated admission.

    When I am saying the US political system and other systems are broken, I am talking about the broad and complete context of the whole political process and everything surrounding politics, as opposed to a functioning intelligent system and an ideal system, and then I also compare to a worst case scenario and identify where exactly our systems are.. So, the only conclusion is that the system is broken.. I rather like to look at the broad context of everything, because I know a lot about a lot of things, but not necessarily small technical details about everything, which is why its more interesting for someone like me to philosophize on the broader picture and the completeness of something, rather than tiny technicalities which doesnt really matter in the broader context no matter if its right or wrong. I particularily hate getting stuck in petty arguments over details as this tend to dislodge the discussion from its original purpose and broader context, which I usually speak in..
    I don't think the US system is broken, but it certainly can be improved. It is clear, however, that based on your description of European parliamentary democracies that party leaders have a lot more power in selecting nominees than in the US. I also dispute the US is on the way to a civil war. We had that once. It is still a tramautic event in the psyche of U.S. history. I don't think it will be repeated any time in my lifetime.

    I think you would be surprised to know the amount of details I know about things even though thats not my specialty. Interesting question lastly, compared to what I know about US politics and the US in general, how much do you think people in general here on the forum knows about European and European politics in comparison?
    Fine, but the selection of nominees is a crucial part of the US political system. I hope myself and others have helped to enhance your understanding of it.

    Its also fascinating for me to know for example that people in the US or the UK and most of the world knows little about France in comparison to what the same people knows about the US, this due to language barriers and such, and I do have an appreciation for my own languages in this context, that I really understand not only what you "Angloes" understand only, but also dusins of others nations and handfuls of other languages, really almost as much as you know the US in your own language. Something to think about when you deal with me and the broader context of things.
    Remember, the US is a FAR MORE important country than France is. Also, due to the proliferation of US media around the world (ie CNN) people have a much closer look at the US than any other country in the world. Even in the local media of the country I live in, at least half of all foreign news coverage is from the US. The US is the most important country in the world, so this is hardly a surprise.
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  2. #162
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    Re: Official: UN may prosecute Bush administration, regardless of US action

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    And if Iraq HAD successfully sought WMDs (and we KNOW they had tried in the past), they very well could have showed us all the folly of doing nothing.
    But they didn't. And we all know they dismantled their WMD program wayyyy back in '91.

    "If" Bush was honest and actually cared about the lives of Americans, and humans in general, and listened to his, and the world's, experts... over 100,000 people who are dead as a door nail now would be alive.

    "If" Bush had listened to Clinton's warnings during his transition, as well as all the other warnings, and actually had gotten off his lazy duff and taken some action against terrorists attacking the United States he could have stopped 9/11 from happening.

    "If" doesn't really help exonerate Bush from his failed Presidency.

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  3. #163
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    Re: Official: UN may prosecute Bush administration, regardless of US action

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    Mr. Wilson's "What I did not find in Africa" has been thoroughly debunked as crap.
    Only by Bush water carriers.
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  4. #164
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    Re: Official: UN may prosecute Bush administration, regardless of US action

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    Selection of nominees is headly a tiny detail.
    I knew 95% of that process. I only thought parties could disqualify people who runs for primaries. Thats a tiny, understandable mistake, considering its that way in Europe, and that it is quite illogical that that is the way it is. And since it is like that, parties in the US are more of a formal institution than a party like it is in Europe, that shocks me considering the way parties "work" in the US in general, and hatred and polarization between them.

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    A single party in a minor European country is NOT the same as understanding how the two major parties in the world's second largest democracy and the world's main economic and military power selects it's nominees for office. Nice try, but FAIL!
    Well, actually the third largest democracy. India as far as I know is biggest ahead of the European Union parliament whom represent 550 million people, and then third is the US. And besides, any election in Europe, especially the German, French and British is very important.
    And if the US democracy is weird compared with European ones that represent 500 million people, and the other democracies in the world, then sure, that is weird, its not the other way around.

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    This is the THIRD different link I have provided and others have provided linkes and you have yet to provide counter examples. If there was an example where the party leadership had disqualified a candidate, you should have been able to come up with one. Thanks for the belated admission.
    Those previous links didnt prove anything, and this link to be honest didnt really describe the whole process, but yet I accept it out of good will

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    I don't think the US system is broken, but it certainly can be improved. It is clear, however, that based on your description of European parliamentary democracies that party leaders have a lot more power in selecting nominees than in the US. I also dispute the US is on the way to a civil war. We had that once. It is still a tramautic event in the psyche of U.S. history. I don't think it will be repeated any time in my lifetime.
    Here we just disagree about the political systems in the US and Europe. I think all are failing, and democracy in general is in a stage of great decline, one of the last stages of total political collapse. Lets say we can rank the systems from 0% to 100% as dysfunctional and functional, I would rank none of the western democracies above 50%, of those I am very familiar with. I would rank for example Italy at 10%, the US at perhaps 35% and declining, the UK at 45%, France at 35% and declining... Actually I would rank Germany above 50%, perhaps even 65%. I would rank Norway, the system I am most familiar with at 25% and rapidly declining for example. Most other European democracies would fall between 30-50%. The European Union I am uncertain about but would rank it higher than most considering its several layers of democracy, including those of the nations within its average, and on top of that the European parliament, and the democracy between the nations and so fourth, but still below 50%, since I can only put European democracies on average at maximum 45% and declining.

    As for the civil war in the US, I am not saying its definetely going to happen, but unlike other people, I am not going to be surprised if it does happen, and I am certainly going to be one of the soldiers who will help you.


    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    Fine, but the selection of nominees is a crucial part of the US political system. I hope myself and others have helped to enhance your understanding of it.
    Certainly, that is why I am on this forum and others, to learn. I certainly did that, feel way more comfortable about my knowledge on the US political system. I have learned a lot of it in general from this forum, and would consider my knowledge on US politics quite excellent, and my knowledge about US governance pretty good.

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    Remember, the US is a FAR MORE important country than France is. Also, due to the proliferation of US media around the world (ie CNN) people have a much closer look at the US than any other country in the world. Even in the local media of the country I live in, at least half of all foreign news coverage is from the US. The US is the most important country in the world, so this is hardly a surprise.
    Hmm, perhaps, perhaps not, with the enormous French influence in the European Union(and Europe in general), France is perhaps the second or third behind Germany most important country in the world, not that far behind the US.

    I think you are mistaken about the media, I think the reason people have more familiarity with the US than for example French, is mostly due to language. This is also why people have far more knowledge on the UK than any other European country. But certainly, the media do play a role.

    The US is certainly the most important country in the world, but its influence is decreasing very fast, and its importance in the world is also rather quickly vanishing.
    Europe is illegally occupied by the US

  5. #165
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    Re: Official: UN may prosecute Bush administration, regardless of US action

    Quote Originally Posted by ADK_Forever View Post
    The CIA, under the thumb of Cheney, reworked Wilson's verbal report.
    !




    Quote Originally Posted by ADK_Forever View Post
    Only by Bush water carriers.


    Hey man, aren't you in another thread complaining about people posting crap like this?



    Just sayin man.
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  6. #166
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    Re: Official: UN may prosecute Bush administration, regardless of US action

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post

    Hey man, aren't you in another thread complaining about people posting crap like this?

    Just sayin man.
    I'm in another thread discussing people making personal attacks, yes.

    This is a general statement that is directed at no one here, specifically.

    Just sayin.
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  7. #167
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    Re: Official: UN may prosecute Bush administration, regardless of US action

    Quote Originally Posted by ADK_Forever View Post
    I'm in another thread discussing people making personal attacks, yes.

    This is a general statement that is directed at no one here, specifically.

    Just sayin.


    Right, you did not refer to Mr. V that way....



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  8. #168
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    Re: Official: UN may prosecute Bush administration, regardless of US action

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    Right, you did not refer to Mr. V that way....

    Be the change you seek.
    It's these kinds of posts that keep people from posting in here.

    Show me where I called Mr V anything!!!

    If you can't, which you can't, why don't you go play in another sand box? We're busy building sand castles in this one.
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  9. #169
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    Re: Official: UN may prosecute Bush administration, regardless of US action

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    Again, she was creating a hypothetical. This is NOT a lie. Her point was to do something BEFORE this happens. This is NOT a lie if it is something that the information you have access to leads to that as a possibility.
    The mushroom cloud was clearly hypothetical. The smoking gun was not. You're pulling that out of your ass. Look, here's the exact quote by Condoleeza Rice:

    "But we don't want the smoking gun to be a mushroom cloud."

    You would actually have us believe that the smoking gun is supposed to be hypothetical? Even if that were true, then her assertions are even more wild and misguided. That would mean she was extrapolating hypotheticals from other hypotheticals, which alone could be a good case for dishonesty. But no, she qualified it as "the smoking gun," not "a smoking gun." She misrepresented the situation to make it sound like we actually had a smoking gun, when we didn't.

    Next you're going to say she only meant a "mushroom-sized" cloud, right?

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