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Thread: Official: UN may prosecute Bush administration, regardless of US action

  1. #101
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    Re: Official: UN may prosecute Bush administration, regardless of US action

    Quote Originally Posted by Moon View Post
    Sounds like wishful thinking on your part.


    Its absolutely not wishful thinking, its realistic thinking. I hope it can be avoided, but in order for it to be avoided things need to change greatly.
    Europe is illegally occupied by the US

  2. #102
    Why so serious?

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    Re: Official: UN may prosecute Bush administration, regardless of US action

    Quote Originally Posted by Maximus Zeebra View Post


    Its absolutely not wishful thinking, its realistic thinking. I hope it can be avoided, but in order for it to be avoided things need to change greatly.
    It's not realistic at all. Our political system has always been very divisive and very passionate. This is no different and no worse than other episodes that have occurred in our past.
    "I believe in a Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the harmony of all that exists, but not in a God who concerns himself with the fate and actions of human beings."

    --Albert Einstein, 1929

  3. #103
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    Re: Official: UN may prosecute Bush administration, regardless of US action

    Quote Originally Posted by Moon View Post
    Actually, you have it backwards. You're the one saying that the hyperbole used by the Bush administration is the same as lying.
    Now you're begging the question. The premise assumes its own conclusion. You have not established that it really is hyperbole, but you claim that I'm turning this hyperbole into lies. Please stop with the logical fallacies.

    Quote Originally Posted by Moon View Post
    Take your last bullet point, for example. No one said there was a mushroom cloud, or that Iraq had nuclear weapons.
    I didn't say a mushroom cloud was claimed when there wasn't one. I said a smoking gun was claimed when there wasn't one.

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmer View Post
    My reply: Source: Senate Armed Services Cmte. Testimony of David Kay.

    Remember these are taken under oath. Not that it matters to a lib.
    CRG: Dr David Kay's Testimony to the Senate Armed Services Committee
    1. I am not a lib. That is unnecessary.
    2. My assertion is that Rice claimed the tubes were only suited for nuclear enrichment. That there was no other explanation. Intelligence officials were on both sides about it. There were other explanations. Rice lied.


    Quote Originally Posted by zimmer View Post
    I do not see a lie here. Do you think intel agencies deal with Cinderella's? It was a "slam dunk" as far as the CIA Director knew. You know, the same guy The Clintons met with twice?
    When you are told that someone's credibility is seriously lacking, and then you go off and say that person is a "solid source," that my friend is a lie no matter how you spin it.

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmer View Post
    The probability that a bunch of terrorists would fly three of four buildings into strategic targets killing thousands was also low probability. So low nobody had thought about it.
    Nobody claimed that the probability of 9/11 was high in spite of the best intelligence indicating otherwise. The NIE said the probability was low, Team Bush described the probability as high. That my friend is a lie no matter how you spin it.

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmer View Post
    Here is more testimony on that scenario:
    This testimony was given in 2004. I can't prove a lie by quoting something that Bush honestly and reasonably believed was true at the time, and you can't disprove a lie by quoting something that Bush didn't even know at the time. Please show where Team Bush was warned by the IC of this better-than-low possibility before March 2003.

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmer View Post
    This does not illustrate a "lie"... and you make a generalization... do not state a shred of fact.
    When you say "there is no doubt" when behind the scenes there is doubt, that my friend is a lie no matter how you spin it.

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmer View Post
    Many from the Democrat party, including its leadership and Presidents, The Clintons, stated with force he was a serious threat with WMD. Hillary defended her vote before a gathering of Code Pinko's.
    I repeat: It's also important to keep separate statements made before and after the 2002 NIE. Many statements on the famous Democrat quote list were based on the 1998 NIE. The assessment was not the same in 2002.

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmer View Post
    Researched. Lies ignored.

    Try again.
    Fixed.

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmer View Post
    LOL. You get to pick the facts. LOL.
    No. We use the most up-to-date information that was available at the time. That goes both ways. You can't use quotes based on data in 1998 to support a conclusion in 2003, when better data was available in 2002, any more than I can use quotes based on data in 2004 to prove a lie occurred in 2003.

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmer View Post
    You see, Saddam kicked out the inspecteurs of da sortie of da yew-ehn (UN) in 1998. Why would the intel change? Why would he disarm himself? LOL.
    Sorry, that was funny.

    CNS - Iraq and UNSCOM: Selected CNS Missile Database Abstracts 1998
    I know he kicked them out in 1998. After that, many of the WMDs that he had in 1998 were destroyed in No-Fly Zone squabbles or became too old to be much of a threat (we know that now but didn't then). Then he let the inspectors back in in 2002. That's where much of the 2002 NIE data came from. He still had violations, but the assessed threat level wasn't as great as it was in 1998. So again, it's not fair to use quotes based on 1998 data to criticize a 2003 decision when more updated data was available in 2002. The decision to wage war, and refutation of the criticims of that decision, should be based solely on the most up-to-date data that was available at the time. So when people post Democrat quotes from 1998 that talk about an alarming situation, they're doing the exact same thing as when people say "Bush lied" just because the best intelligence he had was wrong. Both arguments are fallicious and dishonest.

    By the way, the UN inspectors were given unimpeded access to all of Iraq for two weeks before the invasion. It was Bush who kicked them out for the last time, not Hussein. I won't argue that Hussein was a bastard and a cronic bull****ter, but the inspectors should have been allowed to continue.
    Last edited by Binary_Digit; 01-25-09 at 02:03 PM.

  4. #104
    Why so serious?

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    Re: Official: UN may prosecute Bush administration, regardless of US action

    Quote Originally Posted by Binary_Digit View Post
    Now you're begging the question. The premise assumes its own conclusion. You have not established that it really is hyperbole, but you claim that I'm turning this hyperbole into lies. Please stop with the logical fallacies.


    I didn't say a mushroom cloud was claimed when there wasn't one. I said a smoking gun was claimed when there wasn't one.
    You're posting example of hyperbole and calling them lies. I'm sorry that bothers you so much, but it happens to be true.

    No smoking gun was claimed in the "mushroom cloud" comment. Therefore, there was no lie.
    "I believe in a Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the harmony of all that exists, but not in a God who concerns himself with the fate and actions of human beings."

    --Albert Einstein, 1929

  5. #105
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    Re: Official: UN may prosecute Bush administration, regardless of US action

    Quote Originally Posted by Moon View Post
    You're posting example of hyperbole and calling them lies. I'm sorry that bothers you so much, but it happens to be true.
    Do you agree that taking a fact and exaggerating it is not the same thing as creating a fact where one doesn't exist? Nevermind whether that fits into any of the lies I listed, I just want to know if you recognize that difference or not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Moon View Post
    No smoking gun was claimed in the "mushroom cloud" comment. Therefore, there was no lie.
    You can't be serious. If no smoking gun was claimed, then how could it be right there in Rice's quote, in plain English? Some intellectual honesty would be nice.

  6. #106
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    Re: Official: UN may prosecute Bush administration, regardless of US action

    If Moon isn't contained, he may attack us in the form of a mushroom cloud.

    Just hyperbole, right?
    Quote Originally Posted by faithful_servant View Post
    Being a psychiatric patient does not mean that you are mentally ill.



  7. #107
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    Re: Official: UN may prosecute Bush administration, regardless of US action

    Quote Originally Posted by independent_thinker2002 View Post
    If Moon isn't contained, he may attack us in the form of a mushroom cloud.

    Just hyperbole, right?
    And there is no inferred claim of the existence of Moon in the above quote.

  8. #108
    Why so serious?

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    Re: Official: UN may prosecute Bush administration, regardless of US action

    Quote Originally Posted by Binary_Digit View Post
    Do you agree that taking a fact and exaggerating it is not the same thing as creating a fact where one doesn't exist? Nevermind whether that fits into any of the lies I listed, I just want to know if you recognize that difference or not.
    No. It is an exaggeration or an extrapolation.


    Quote Originally Posted by Binary_Digit View Post
    You can't be serious. If no smoking gun was claimed, then how could it be right there in Rice's quote, in plain English? Some intellectual honesty would be nice.
    You posted:

    "We can't wait for a smoking gun to turn into a mushroom cloud." Statement was made by Rice when there was never a smoking gun by any definition.
    Nowhere in that quote is there a statement that there is, in fact a smoking gun. It's a speculation about the future possibility of a smoking gun, and the form that it might take. here is no way on earth that a reasonable person could look at that statement and call it a lie. And yes, intellectual honesty would be fabulous, and I hope you plan on using some in the near future.
    "I believe in a Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the harmony of all that exists, but not in a God who concerns himself with the fate and actions of human beings."

    --Albert Einstein, 1929

  9. #109
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    Re: Official: UN may prosecute Bush administration, regardless of US action

    Quote Originally Posted by Moon View Post
    It's not realistic at all. Our political system has always been very divisive and very passionate. This is no different and no worse than other episodes that have occurred in our past.
    Your political system has fallen apart. Its a joke, a laughingstock even in Africa.
    Europe is illegally occupied by the US

  10. #110
    Why so serious?

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    Re: Official: UN may prosecute Bush administration, regardless of US action

    Quote Originally Posted by independent_thinker2002 View Post
    If Moon isn't contained, he may attack us in the form of a mushroom cloud.

    Just hyperbole, right?
    Well, I am brewing a large pot of chili for dinner tonight, so a mushroom cloud is certainly possible.
    "I believe in a Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the harmony of all that exists, but not in a God who concerns himself with the fate and actions of human beings."

    --Albert Einstein, 1929

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