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Thread: Official: UN may prosecute Bush administration, regardless of US action

  1. #91
    Why so serious?

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    Re: Official: UN may prosecute Bush administration, regardless of US action

    Quote Originally Posted by Maximus Zeebra View Post
    I think eventually there will be civil war in the US, it seems unavoidable.. Both sides try to redefine words to fit their own policies. Its getting ridiculous and out of hands, the sides are getting more and more extreme and more and more hostile towards each others and the other sides ideas.

    Either that or the US will end up like in "idiocracy" where politics and such just gets more and more stupid, and the people get more and more stupid as a result of the political process and polarization created between them because of politics and parties.
    Sounds like wishful thinking on your part.
    "I believe in a Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the harmony of all that exists, but not in a God who concerns himself with the fate and actions of human beings."

    --Albert Einstein, 1929

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    Re: Official: UN may prosecute Bush administration, regardless of US action

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmer View Post
    What lies?

    Please make a list or offer just one example.
    One.
    - Centrifuge tubes "really only suited" for nuclear enrichment programs. Statement was made by Rice several months after the NIE said they were "poorly suited" for that purpose.
    - Curveball was a "solid source." Statement was made by Powell after German intelligence warned us about his serious credibility problems.
    - Hussein might give WMDs to terrorists "on any given day." Statement was made by Bush several months after the NIE said that probability was low.
    - "There is no doubt..." repeated multiple times when there really was doubt.
    - "We can't wait for a smoking gun to turn into a mushroom cloud." Statement was made by Rice when there was never a smoking gun by any definition.

    Please research these before discounting them out of hand. You will find they are all "lies" in that Team Bush knew at the time they were untrue or uncertain.

    It's also important to keep separate statements made before and after the 2002 NIE. Many statements on the famous Democrat quote list were based on the 1998 NIE. The assessment was not the same in 2002.

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    Re: Official: UN may prosecute Bush administration, regardless of US action

    Quote Originally Posted by Binary_Digit View Post
    - Centrifuge tubes "really only suited" for nuclear enrichment programs. Statement was made by Rice several months after the NIE said they were "poorly suited" for that purpose.
    - Curveball was a "solid source." Statement was made by Powell after German intelligence warned us about his serious credibility problems.
    - Hussein might give WMDs to terrorists "on any given day." Statement was made by Bush several months after the NIE said that probability was low.
    - "There is no doubt..." repeated multiple times when there really was doubt.
    - "We can't wait for a smoking gun to turn into a mushroom cloud." Statement was made by Rice when there was never a smoking gun by any definition.

    Please research these before discounting them out of hand. You will find they are all "lies" in that Team Bush knew at the time they were untrue or uncertain.

    It's also important to keep separate statements made before and after the 2002 NIE. Many statements on the famous Democrat quote list were based on the 1998 NIE. The assessment was not the same in 2002.
    So where are you going with all this? Are you hoping for a fantasy, or do you really believe the UN is going to PROSECUTE Bush? Obviously it's the former, cause the latter is silly.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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    Re: Official: UN may prosecute Bush administration, regardless of US action

    Any UN resolution is a joke if the great powers are not behind it.
    I am a proud citizen of
    The Republic of Titulia

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    Re: Official: UN may prosecute Bush administration, regardless of US action

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    So where are you going with all this?
    Team Bush knowingly lied to the public about the facts behind the rationale for war in Iraq. That's where I'm going.

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Are you hoping for a fantasy, or do you really believe the UN is going to PROSECUTE Bush? Obviously it's the former, cause the latter is silly.
    No, actually I tend to agree with the concerns behind what kind of precedent this would impose on our sovereignty. The U.S. needs to man up and prosecute him our own damn selves.

  6. #96
    Why so serious?

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    Re: Official: UN may prosecute Bush administration, regardless of US action

    Quote Originally Posted by Binary_Digit View Post
    - Centrifuge tubes "really only suited" for nuclear enrichment programs. Statement was made by Rice several months after the NIE said they were "poorly suited" for that purpose.
    - Curveball was a "solid source." Statement was made by Powell after German intelligence warned us about his serious credibility problems.
    - Hussein might give WMDs to terrorists "on any given day." Statement was made by Bush several months after the NIE said that probability was low.
    - "There is no doubt..." repeated multiple times when there really was doubt.
    - "We can't wait for a smoking gun to turn into a mushroom cloud." Statement was made by Rice when there was never a smoking gun by any definition.

    Please research these before discounting them out of hand. You will find they are all "lies" in that Team Bush knew at the time they were untrue or uncertain.

    It's also important to keep separate statements made before and after the 2002 NIE. Many statements on the famous Democrat quote list were based on the 1998 NIE. The assessment was not the same in 2002.
    If hyperbole were an impeachable offense, every President in our history would have been found guilty. That's all you have here.
    "I believe in a Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the harmony of all that exists, but not in a God who concerns himself with the fate and actions of human beings."

    --Albert Einstein, 1929

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    Re: Official: UN may prosecute Bush administration, regardless of US action

    Quote Originally Posted by Binary_Digit View Post
    Team Bush knowingly lied to the public about the facts behind the rationale for war in Iraq. That's where I'm going.


    No, actually I tend to agree with the concerns behind what kind of precedent this would impose on our sovereignty. The U.S. needs to man up and prosecute him our own damn selves.
    Yeah, I'm sure you're real concerned about our sovereignty. Your feigned concern is a joke. Join Fantasy Island with your other buds.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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    Re: Official: UN may prosecute Bush administration, regardless of US action

    Quote Originally Posted by Moon View Post
    If hyperbole were an impeachable offense, every President in our history would have been found guilty. That's all you have here.
    You are equivocating "lie" and "hyperbole," not me. Let me explain the difference. If I'm hungry, and I say that I'm so hungry I could eat a horse, that's hyperbole. If I'm not hungry, and I say that I'm so hungry I could eat a horse, that's a lie.

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Yeah, I'm sure you're real concerned about our sovereignty. Your feigned concern is a joke. Join Fantasy Island with your other buds.
    Thanks for the ad-hominem. Got anything relevant to what I actually said?

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    Why so serious?

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    Re: Official: UN may prosecute Bush administration, regardless of US action

    Quote Originally Posted by Binary_Digit View Post
    You are equivocating "lie" and "hyperbole," not me. Let me explain the difference. If I'm hungry, and I say that I'm so hungry I could eat a horse, that's hyperbole. If I'm not hungry, and I say that I'm so hungry I could eat a horse, that's a lie.


    Thanks for the ad-hominem. Got anything relevant to what I actually said?
    Actually, you have it backwards. You're the one saying that the hyperbole used by the Bush administration is the same as lying. Take your last bullet point, for example. No one said there was a mushroom cloud, or that Iraq had nuclear weapons. What was said was that they didn't want to see the smoking gun in the shape of a mushroom cloud. Clearly, hyperbole used for effect, and one glommed on to by the "Bush to The Hague!" crowd as a lie, regardless of what was actually said.
    "I believe in a Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the harmony of all that exists, but not in a God who concerns himself with the fate and actions of human beings."

    --Albert Einstein, 1929

  10. #100
    Educating the Ignorant
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    Re: Official: UN may prosecute Bush administration, regardless of US action

    Centrifuge tubes "really only suited" for nuclear enrichment programs. Statement was made by Rice several months after the NIE said they were "poorly suited" for that purpose.
    My reply: Source: Senate Armed Services Cmte. Testimony of David Kay.

    Remember these are taken under oath. Not that it matters to a lib.
    KAY: Senator Kennedy, it's impossible in a short time I have to reply to take you through fully that. And in fact, that's my hope that Senator Roberts and his committee will have done that.

    But let me just say that while it -- there's a selecting process that goes on both ways. There were people in the DOE who believed that those aluminum tubes were indeed for a centrifuge program. It's a lot easier after the fact and after you know the truth to be selective that you were right. I've gone through this a lot in my career.
    LEVIN: My final question, Dr. Kay, subject to the chair perhaps commenting on my request, is this: Is it your judgment that the aluminum tubes that Iraq was trying to acquire were intended or used for a centrifuge program to enrich uranium for nuclear weapons? Is that your view?

    KAY: Senator Levin, this is an area which falls into what Senator Warner referred to -- where I think it's important that the investigation continue.

    It is my judgment, based on the evidence that was collected, but there clearly can be more, that it's more than probable that those tubes were intended for use in a conventional missile program, rather than in a centrifuge program. But it's an open question still being investigated.

    LEVIN: But that is your judgment, that they were not related to uranium enrichment?

    KAY: That is my personal judgment, that they probably were not, based on evidence -- but there's still more evidence possible to gain.

    LEVIN: One short, final question, my second final question: In your judgment, had Iraq reconstituted its nuclear weapon program in the way you understand the word "reconstitute"?

    KAY: It was in the early stages of renovating the program, building new buildings. It was not a reconstituted, full-blown nuclear program.

    LEVIN: Thank you.
    CRG: Dr David Kay's Testimony to the Senate Armed Services Committee



    - Curveball was a "solid source." Statement was made by Powell after German intelligence warned us about his serious credibility problems.
    I do not see a lie here. Do you think intel agencies deal with Cinderella's? It was a "slam dunk" as far as the CIA Director knew. You know, the same guy The Clintons met with twice?

    - Hussein might give WMDs to terrorists "on any given day." Statement was made by Bush several months after the NIE said that probability was low.
    The probability that a bunch of terrorists would fly three of four buildings into strategic targets killing thousands was also low probability. So low nobody had thought about it.
    No Lie here either.
    Here is more testimony on that scenario:
    CORNYN: You said something during your opening statement that intrigues me, and something that I'm afraid may be overlooked in all of this back and forth; and that has to do with proliferation.

    You said that there was a risk of a willing seller meeting a willing buyer of such weapons or weapon stockpiles, whether they be large, small or programs, whether it's information that Iraqi scientists might be willing to sell or work in cooperation with rogue organizations or even nations.

    But do you consider that to have been a real risk in terms of Saddam's activities and these programs -- the risk of proliferation?

    KAY: Actually, I consider it a bigger risk. And that's why I paused on the preceding questions. I consider that a bigger risk than the restart of his programs being successful.

    KAY: I think the way the society was going, and the number of willing buyers in the market, that that probably was a risk that if we did avoid, we barely avoided.
    - "There is no doubt..." repeated multiple times when there really was doubt.
    This does not illustrate a "lie"... and you make a generalization... do not state a shred of fact.

    - "We can't wait for a smoking gun to turn into a mushroom cloud." Statement was made by Rice when there was never a smoking gun by any definition.
    Many from the Democrat party, including its leadership and Presidents, The Clintons, stated with force he was a serious threat with WMD. Hillary defended her vote before a gathering of Code Pinko's.

    Please research these before discounting them out of hand. You will find they are all "lies" in that Team Bush knew at the time they were untrue or uncertain.
    Researched. No lies found.

    Try again.

    It's also important to keep separate statements made before and after the 2002 NIE. Many statements on the famous Democrat quote list were based on the 1998 NIE. The assessment was not the same in 2002.
    LOL. You get to pick the facts. LOL.
    You see, Saddam kicked out the inspecteurs of da sortie of da yew-ehn (UN) in 1998. Why would the intel change? Why would he disarm himself? LOL.
    Sorry, that was funny.

    CNS - Iraq and UNSCOM: Selected CNS Missile Database Abstracts 1998
    Bibliography: Washington Times, 6 August 1998, <http://www.washtimes.com>
    Headline: Saddam Shuts Down UN Inspectors
    Orig. Source:

    ABSTRACT:

    Iraqi President Saddam Hussein on 5 August 1998 ended all cooperation with UN weapons inspectors. An Iraqi government statement said that "there would be no further cooperation with the UN's Special Commission on Iraq (UNSCOM) or the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) until the following demands were met:"
    Last edited by zimmer; 01-25-09 at 12:11 PM.
    The Clintons are what happens...
    when you have NO MORAL COMPASS.

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