Page 3 of 8 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 79

Thread: Guantánamo detainee resurfaces in terrorist group

  1. #21
    Familiaist


    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    North Carolina
    Last Seen
    11-16-16 @ 09:36 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Conservative
    Posts
    7,470

    Re: Guantánamo detainee resurfaces in terrorist group

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    Funny, we cannot fight an ideology with ideas it will never accept.

    Like Freedom. Freedom of Religion. Freedom of choice. Freedom of <insert here a freedom western culture allows that Islamo-fascist don't>.


    So we can fight them with guns, and kick the CRAP out of them.

    We can send them flowers and tell them to like us.

    We can convert to their brand of Islam and have them love us.


    I have a feeling you'd send flowers then opt to convert rather then fight.
    No. What you do to eliminate an ideology is you make it irrelevant. Shooting weaponry at a person does not kill the ideology it kills the person. How do you make an ideology irrelevant? Well, you take up the cause of the people who are buying into the ideology as an option to make their own lives better. You forget that groups like Hamas and Hezbollah have large wings that do nothing but give aid to the slums of their respective countries. If someone is able to smuggle food into your country, you are not going to immediately turn your back on them.
    "I do not underestimate the ability of fanatical groups of terrorists to kill and destroy, but they do not threaten the life of the nation. Whether we would survive Hitler hung in the balance, but there is no doubt that we shall survive al-Qa'ida." -- Lord Hoffmann

  2. #22
    Sage
    Laila's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Last Seen
    04-28-17 @ 01:48 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    10,095

    Re: Guantánamo detainee resurfaces in terrorist group

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmer View Post
    Our military does a good enough job sorting through the mess. You may not trust them, but I do. They have no reason to keep non-terrorists. For what? Play toys?
    I doubt it, the military probably have their hands ties with targets by the politicans

    By saying you have so and so amount of "terrorists" you make yourselves look better, especially a Government in the eyes of the citizens

  3. #23
    Enemy Combatant
    Kandahar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Washington, DC
    Last Seen
    10-15-13 @ 08:47 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    20,688

    Re: Guantánamo detainee resurfaces in terrorist group

    Quote Originally Posted by JMak View Post
    Quit playing stupid Kandahar. This is but one example of Gito releases returning to the battlefield. How many times are we going to read about Gito releases being killed by US forces in Afghanistan or being picked up as part of a terror cell in East Asia or...or...or for you to acknowledge that, you know, there are bad guys locked up at Gitmo?
    Never said there weren't. But there have also been innocent people there, which is exactly why we need a judge to review each case and, you know, actually JUDGE them.

    Quote Originally Posted by JMak
    Secondly, you said, "If this guy was a terrorist, then the government should have tried him and convicted of him of a crime" which is completely ignorant or at a minimum completely ignores the problems associated with treating terrorism like a common liquor store robbery.
    So do you believe that it's OK for the President of the United States to order the indefinite incarceration of anyone, anywhere in the world, with no oversight, simply because he deems them to be a terrorist? If not, what do you suggest?
    Are you coming to bed?
    I can't. This is important.
    What?
    Someone is WRONG on the internet! -XKCD

  4. #24
    Educating the Ignorant
    zimmer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Last Seen
    Today @ 05:04 AM
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    14,484
    Blog Entries
    12

    Re: Guantánamo detainee resurfaces in terrorist group

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    I doubt it, the military probably have their hands ties with targets by the politicans

    By saying you have so and so amount of "terrorists" you make yourselves look better, especially a Government in the eyes of the citizens
    Sorry, I failed to understand your point. A and B.
    The Clintons are what happens...
    when you have NO MORAL COMPASS.

  5. #25
    Sage
    Renae's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    San Antonio Texas
    Last Seen
    10-23-17 @ 10:14 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    38,972
    Blog Entries
    15

    Re: Guantánamo detainee resurfaces in terrorist group

    Quote Originally Posted by Arch Enemy View Post
    No. What you do to eliminate an ideology is you make it irrelevant.
    Great, and how do you do that when they keep using guns, bombs and attacks? Hmm?

    Quote Originally Posted by Arch Enemy View Post
    Shooting weaponry at a person does not kill the ideology it kills the person.
    Yep, and kill enough of them, the ideology dies


    Quote Originally Posted by Arch Enemy View Post
    How do you make an ideology irrelevant? Well, you take up the cause of the people who are buying into the ideology as an option to make their own lives better.
    What if that ideology hinges on defeating yours and bringing about World Islamic Rule as the path to happiness? Hmm?


    Quote Originally Posted by Arch Enemy View Post
    You forget that groups like Hamas and Hezbollah have large wings that do nothing but give aid to the slums of their respective countries. If someone is able to smuggle food into your country, you are not going to immediately turn your back on them.
    Yeah, cuase if you turn your back on those groups they might choose your family as their next "human shields"

  6. #26
    Sage
    Laila's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Last Seen
    04-28-17 @ 01:48 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    10,095

    Re: Guantánamo detainee resurfaces in terrorist group

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmer View Post
    Sorry, I failed to understand your point. A and B.
    How about re read my post ... SLOWLY

    It might help in your understanding

  7. #27
    Phoenecian
    Indy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Chicago
    Last Seen
    03-22-13 @ 04:36 PM
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    2,089

    Re: Guantánamo detainee resurfaces in terrorist group

    Pentagon: 61 ex-Guantanamo inmates return to terrorism

    Rights advocates contend that many Guantanamo detainees have never taken up arms against the United States and say the Defense Department in the past has described former detainees as rejoining "the fight" because they spoke out against the U.S. government.
    Affiant further sayeth not.

  8. #28
    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Last Seen
    03-22-15 @ 02:36 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    17,343

    Re: Guantánamo detainee resurfaces in terrorist group

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    I'd bet alot he wasn't a terrorist before he entered the prison ...
    Do you have anything other than your prejudices to support this bet?

  9. #29
    Professor

    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Last Seen
    02-13-09 @ 05:15 PM
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    1,942

    Re: Guantánamo detainee resurfaces in terrorist group

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Quit playing stupid yourself. Just because fuhrer Bush and his minions claim that the people at Gitmo were or are terrorists does not mean they are. In the western world we still try to live after the rule of law, including the principle that you are innocent until proven guilty.
    Why do you insist on totally diluting the evil of Hitler so you can smear Bush? You know, Hitler is supposed to represent the furthest extremes of evil, like Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, and others. But you think Bush is properly included in that distinguished class that saw tens and tens and tens of millions of people imprisoned and murdered?

    What kind of jerk-off, are you? You one of the Holacaust deniers?

    Sorry, but combatants picked up on the battlfield are not entitled to the innocent until proven guilty concept. They are not ordinary citizens.

    Also it seems to me, that you are willing to give a child rapist, a mass murder and other criminals far more legal rights and access to the legal system, than you are a bunch of men that you have only the word of a fascist Bush administration that they are "dangerous"..
    So not only are you foolish enough classify Bush as Hitler, but to totally bastardize the word, "fascist," too?

    Secondly, yes, I am ready to grant ordinary American citizens the consitutional rights and protections that they are entitled to. If there are greater than those rights and protections available to non-citizens picked up on a battlefield engaged in killing American soldiers, so be it. I'm not sure why you want to treat such combatants as ordinary citizens, though, when, by their own free actions, have completely disregarded the laws and customs of war to kill civilians, intentioanlly place civilian's in harms way, or kill Amrican soldiers.

    Fact is that out of the 500+ men and boys held at gitmo (yes there have been children held there and still are), a majority, yes a majority have been released, without charge but also labelled as innocent of any "terrorist activities". It is funny how this, to a right winger, who supposedly is the staunch defender of the rule of law and the ideals of the USA, suddenly totally ignores these facts.
    I'm not ignoring them. I do acknowledge, though, that due process was granted to these individuals to challenge their detainment and, ultimately, be released without prejudice if they successfully challenged that status.

    Yes there are bad men at Gitmo, but if the US has proof that they are bad.. put them on trial.
    On trial where? They were granted combatant status review tribunals to challenge their combatant status. These were the CSRT's set up by the Detainee Treatment Act in 05.

    Maybe we're talking about different groups of people here, I don't know.

    If you believe in the principles of the USA, then you should never ever accept that your government hold people of any nationality, in prison without charge, without any legal access or any access at all for long periods of time, and let alone let them be tortured by your own government.
    First of all you're arguing then that the US should not have ever become a signatory to Geneva as Geneva permits nations to detain combatants, without trial, for the duration of hostilities.

    Second, the problem with your torture statement is that we're all arguing different concepts of torture. Some have declared waterboarding, varying the room temperature, blasting loud music, using female interrogators, using dogs as torture while others, like me, say that such treatment neither satisfies the definitions in US law nor is equivalent to unquestioned torture like murder, rape, amputation, mutilation.

    You should be up in arms defending the very principles that your troops, your father, grandfather and others died defending in WW2 and other wars.. and yet you are not only silent, but actually supportive of such fascist acts by your own government.
    Oh, please, enough emotional pleas.

    zYou've not established what these principles, hence, you're appealing to undeclared principles and demanding that I adhere to them. Sorry, that dog don't hunt.

    As for this guy. This happens in a world where we believe in the principle of the rule of law. Murders do get off free because we can not prove they did it. It is the price we have to pay for not having a dictatorship that locks up undesirables in gulags for most of their lives. It is the price of freedom and the difference between us and them..
    I see your point. No justice system is perfect. But terrorists and enemy combatants are not ordinary civilians being prosecuted in ordinary civilian courts. No international agreement requires that combatants be treated as ordinary civilians in civilian courts. Military commissions have been the traditional venue for combatants to challenge their detention.

    So what are you arguing for? That combatants and terrorists be prosecuted in civilian courts or that they be treated as combatants as international law expects?

    Yes the US is at war with this mythical no discript thing called terror.. but where is the limit of what terror is and what you can do to not only prevent terror but punish those that are suspected of this terror.
    You can fool yourself into thinking that we are at war with a extremist ideology if you want. I know Bush did, at least as he talked to the American people about it. On the other hand, we are prosecuting an aggressive war against those groups who commit acts of terrorism against the US and the two primary battlefields are Iraq and Afghanistan where they are flocking to fight us.

    Do you give up the very principles that so cherish because of fear?
    What principles? I'm not going to concede a point to unknown principles that fail to id.

    This is what the US has done.. today a woman slapping her own children on an air plane can be charged and convicted of terror... is that right?
    No.

    Is that what the US has come too?
    No.

    A person robbing a bank.. is he now a terrorist and can be held under terror laws?
    No.

    A person smuggling drugs.. is she a terrorist and be held under terror laws? Where do you stop?
    No.

    Hence, since there is no start, there is no stop.

    Now we know that you are a bad faith participant in this debate. Please do not make up the facts you need to present your perverted perception of what the US has become.

  10. #30
    Professor

    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Last Seen
    02-13-09 @ 05:15 PM
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    1,942

    Re: Guantánamo detainee resurfaces in terrorist group

    Quote Originally Posted by Arch Enemy View Post
    No. I am merely arguing against political jargon that no longer has any sort of ethical meaning. Our foreign policy uses the term "terrorism" when they really mean "someone who has a different opinion than we do". The term dilutes the fact that our foreign policy is just one view of the world, and it turns them into some sort of machine that kills people because it wants to kill people.

    Orwell argued in "Politics and the English language" that one of the biggest problems facing modernity is the usage of words to either intensify or chill the problem for political agenda. Al Quedia calls us Infidels and we call them Terrorists.
    What warped world do you live in?

    We call people terrorists because they think differently than we do?

    And we don't call them terrorists because they use airliners to bomb skyscrapers, use cars to bomb embassies, use men and women to conduct suicide bombings, etc., etc., etc.?

    Where do you get off reinventing history here?

    I always like the cliched Orwell stuff, it's so much easier for you people to speak in cliches rather than address actual issues and arguments.

Page 3 of 8 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •