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Thread: Obama - U.S. will not torture

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    Re: Obama - U.S. will not torture

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmer View Post
    You see, my rationale is simple. I believe it is immoral for thousands to die because you have a terrorist in you hands that may hold the key to saving their lives.
    Fixed it for you. I think it's barbaric to torture someone. I would like to think we did not live in the middle ages, but individuals such as yourself refuse to allow us to progress.

    If professional coercion is required, so be it. His choice.

    You prefer to protect the temporary health of the terrorist.
    I prefer to protect the lives of thousands or more of innocent citizens.

    I think your choice is nothing short of immoral.
    Now you are being dishonest. More often than not, torture gets us nothing. I suggest you get off of your noble steed before the facts come along and knock you off.
    "An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it." - Gandhi

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    Re: Obama - U.S. will not torture

    More often then not...

    So those that would have died in those times we DO get something... shoudl they feel ashamed they are alive because someone was "tortured" to save them?

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    Re: Obama - U.S. will not torture

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    More often then not...

    So those that would have died in those times we DO get something... shoudl they feel ashamed they are alive because someone was "tortured" to save them?
    And how many times do we receive information that leads nowhere? How often do we get told exactly what we want to hear?
    "An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it." - Gandhi

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    Re: Obama - U.S. will not torture

    An interrogator I know that contracted to work in Iraq told me that they do not use torture techniques because it usually results in bad intel that could cost American lives.

    That's what he told me.

    I'm just sayin'....

    It's GREAT to be me. --- "45% liberal/55% conservative"
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    Re: Obama - U.S. will not torture

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain America View Post
    An interrogator I know that contracted to work in Iraq told me that they do not use torture techniques because it usually results in bad intel that could cost American lives.

    That's what he told me.

    I'm just sayin'....
    I have friends that say otherwise...

    Damn so where does that leave us?

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    Re: Obama - U.S. will not torture

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain America View Post
    An interrogator I know that contracted to work in Iraq told me that they do not use torture techniques because it usually results in bad intel that could cost American lives.

    That's what he told me.

    I'm just sayin'....
    If you don't have time for a coffee and a smoke, a few nights for Ahmed the Terrorist not to sleep on it, to enjoy AC/DC, Ozzy, KISS, get the sauna-arctic treatment, then you'd just sit there and let him be... stonewalling.?
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    Re: Obama - U.S. will not torture

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    I have friends that say otherwise...

    Damn so where does that leave us?
    I guess we'll just have to rely on the experts who have gone public against torture. You know, actually employees of the government who came out saying the data they got was unreliable. Forgive me but the "My friend said..." argument doesn't fly here on DP. That goes for both of you.
    Affiant further sayeth not.

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    Re: Obama - U.S. will not torture

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmer View Post
    Oh yes.
    Is this another academic theory that sounds good on paper but wilts under the harsh light of reality?
    No. It's the words of people who've actually conducted torture and cohesive methods. Try again.

    Me thinks so, because to claim man can withstand torture and not reveal vital info has been blown to shreds with some terrorists we have captured... and I don't consider water boarding torture. Loud music... sleep deprivation... hot-cold syndrome either.
    Source? Let me guess? Waterboarding.org? Or better yet The Bush administration?

    You can feel good about terrorists being protected as innocent civilians are executed.
    Conservative emotional rhetoric ignored. Save it for abortion commercials.

    I suspect the terrorists of the world like your kind and encourage you and Obama's type.
    Incoherent babel ignored for the sake of debate.

    Tell me, is it moral to not do everything humanly possible to spare innocent men, women and children from a terrorists attack?
    Appeal to emotion ignored.

    If the answer is "yes" then we side together. If not, then you seem to think a terrorists short term health is more important. Broken bones and ripped skin heals. Dead is dead.
    More plea to emotional rhetoric ignored.

    It may seem cold, but these are the types of decisions Obama must make. Do we protect terrorists or innocent civilians?
    Fourth attempt to the 'what if' mentality of so called 'compassionate' Conservatives. Here zimmer. I'll give you a tip. Why don't you provide some sort of evidence that torture does work other then the obviously unbiased resourceful 'Waterboarding.org' who depends on hearsay from unverifiable sources to make it's argument. Till then here's a tissue :



    Go cry about those we might be able to save because of torture to somebody else.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Obama - U.S. will not torture

    Quote Originally Posted by Indy View Post
    I guess we'll just have to rely on the experts who have gone public against torture. You know, actually employees of the government who came out saying the data they got was unreliable. Forgive me but the "My friend said..." argument doesn't fly here on DP. That goes for both of you.
    I have friends serving over in Iraq in various capacities, right now. They say sometimes.. they get information that they need and the only way to have done so was to use "harsh methods". But that's not the point, I was basically making the same point you were at the end of your statement...

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    Re: Obama - U.S. will not torture

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    I have friends serving over in Iraq in various capacities, right now. They say sometimes.. they get information that they need and the only way to have done so was to use "harsh methods". But that's not the point, I was basically making the same point you were at the end of your statement...
    Hearsay is such a funny thing. I mean I have no way of knowing whether you're making these friends up to support your point. But here. I'll support my point by providing the words of somebody who we can both be assured does exist :

    The Torture Myth (washingtonpost.com)

    Or listen to Army Col. Stuart Herrington, a military intelligence specialist who conducted interrogations in Vietnam, Panama and Iraq during Desert Storm, and who was sent by the Pentagon in 2003 -- long before Abu Ghraib -- to assess interrogations in Iraq. Aside from its immorality and its illegality, says Herrington, torture is simply "not a good way to get information." In his experience, nine out of 10 people can be persuaded to talk with no "stress methods" at all, let alone cruel and unusual ones. Asked whether that would be true of religiously motivated fanatics, he says that the "batting average" might be lower: "perhaps six out of ten." And if you beat up the remaining four? "They'll just tell you anything to get you to stop."
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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