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Thread: Obama - U.S. will not torture

  1. #31
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    Re: Obama - U.S. will not torture

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Here. Zimmer. I'll give you a clue of why waterboarding torture doesn't work :

    The Torture Myth (washingtonpost.com)
    Oh yes.
    Is this another academic theory that sounds good on paper but wilts under the harsh light of reality?

    Me thinks so, because to claim man can withstand torture and not reveal vital info has been blown to shreds with some terrorists we have captured... and I don't consider water boarding torture. Loud music... sleep deprivation... hot-cold syndrome either.

    You can feel good about terrorists being protected as innocent civilians are executed.

    I suspect the terrorists of the world like your kind and encourage you and Obama's type.

    Tell me, is it moral to not do everything humanly possible to spare innocent men, women and children from a terrorists attack?

    If the answer is "yes" then we side together. If not, then you seem to think a terrorists short term health is more important. Broken bones and ripped skin heals. Dead is dead.

    It may seem cold, but these are the types of decisions Obama must make. Do we protect terrorists or innocent civilians?
    Last edited by zimmer; 01-23-09 at 11:54 AM.
    The Clintons are what happens...
    when you have NO MORAL COMPASS.

  2. #32
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    Re: Obama - U.S. will not torture

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmer View Post
    Oh yes.
    Is this another academic theory that sounds good on paper but wilts under the harsh light of reality?
    You know, it would help if you actually READ the source. Here are those 'acedemics' you're talking about:

    - retired Air Force Col. John Rothrock, who, as a young captain, headed a combat interrogation team in Vietnam. More than once he was faced with a ticking time-bomb scenario: a captured Vietcong guerrilla who knew of plans to kill Americans.

    - Army Col. Stuart Herrington, a military intelligence specialist who conducted interrogations in Vietnam, Panama and Iraq during Desert Storm, and who was sent by the Pentagon in 2003

    I think it's YOUR academic theory that is wilting under the harsh light of reality.

  3. #33
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    Re: Obama - U.S. will not torture

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmer View Post
    Oh yes.
    Is this another academic theory that sounds good on paper but wilts under the harsh light of reality?

    Me thinks so, because to claim man can withstand torture and not reveal vital info has been blown to shreds with some terrorists we have captured... and I don't consider water boarding torture. Loud music... sleep deprivation... hot-cold syndrome either.
    I'll tell you that if you tortured me, I'd admit to being the Queen of England if that's what you wanted. Sure maybe sometimes you get a truth, but how often is what you get truth? I'd be screaming whatever it was you wanted to hear to make it stop. I doubt it's that reliable, and if military officers are making claim that it's not reliable then I'm gonna go with them. They probably have a lot more experience with this than you.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  4. #34
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    Re: Obama - U.S. will not torture

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    God damn, finally someone understands the concept of specious reasoning. I knew someone else had to know about this. Fact is that we didn't suffer a lot from terrorist attacks on our soil, they happened every once in awhile but not with great frequency. So we're not even outside one standard deviation and people proclaim this as good. For the love of all that is holy, would these people please take a few science and statistics courses. You have to get a few sigma away before you can state anything with confidence, and you have to be able to prove causality. Just being within the standard time between terrorist attacks doesn't mean a law has worked. And guess what? We're gonna have another terrorist attack here at some point. It will happen, while there are things we can do (reasonable) to lower the rate, that rate will never be zero. Deal with it. No reason that we should start sacrificing our freedom and liberty for "safety".

    So your point is that the failure of terrorists to successfully launch a terror attack here in the US is just by chance? That the government's actions and behavior had nothing to do with it?

    And can we please stop with the cliche about sacrificing liberty? There is no grant of universal and uninfringed liberty. There has always been and always will be a strong tension between public safety and liberty and we see that in our own Constitution and the amendments attached to it.

  5. #35
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    Re: Obama - U.S. will not torture

    Quote Originally Posted by JMak View Post
    So your point is that the failure of terrorists to successfully launch a terror attack here in the US is just by chance? That the government's actions and behavior had nothing to do with it?
    No, I'm saying that if we average a terrorist attack every 10 or 11 years or so, that 8 years after an attack claiming the changed laws have prevented new attacks is an unprovable statement since you are not outside the standard deviation. Do people even take statistics anymore?

    Quote Originally Posted by JMak View Post
    And can we please stop with the cliche about sacrificing liberty?
    No, the defense of liberty has always been an important duty of freemen.

    Quote Originally Posted by JMak View Post
    There is no grant of universal and uninfringed liberty. There has always been and always will be a strong tension between public safety and liberty and we see that in our own Constitution and the amendments attached to it.
    So you're good with gun control. K.
    Last edited by Ikari; 01-23-09 at 12:11 PM.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  6. #36
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    Re: Obama - U.S. will not torture

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    God damn, finally someone understands the concept of specious reasoning. I knew someone else had to know about this. Fact is that we didn't suffer a lot from terrorist attacks on our soil, they happened every once in awhile but not with great frequency. So we're not even outside one standard deviation and people proclaim this as good. For the love of all that is holy, would these people please take a few science and statistics courses. You have to get a few sigma away before you can state anything with confidence, and you have to be able to prove causality. Just being within the standard time between terrorist attacks doesn't mean a law has worked. And guess what? We're gonna have another terrorist attack here at some point. It will happen, while there are things we can do (reasonable) to lower the rate, that rate will never be zero. Deal with it. No reason that we should start sacrificing our freedom and liberty for "safety".
    You do realize that all Embassies are considered US soil don't you?

  7. #37
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    Re: Obama - U.S. will not torture

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    You do realize that all Embassies are considered US soil don't you?


    You walked right into that one. So, we haven't been attacked on US soil for... less than a year. Good job Bush.

    Attack Against U.S. Embassy In Yemen Blamed on Al-Qaeda

    Attackers used vehicle bombs, rocket-propelled grenades and automatic weapons to mount a coordinated assault on the U.S. Embassy here Wednesday, leaving 10 guards and civilians dead outside the main gate but failing to breach the walled compound. No Americans were killed.
    Affiant further sayeth not.

  8. #38
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    Re: Obama - U.S. will not torture

    Quote Originally Posted by Indy View Post


    You walked right into that one. So, we haven't been attacked on US soil for... less than a year. Good job Bush.

    Attack Against U.S. Embassy In Yemen Blamed on Al-Qaeda
    God damned it, you beat me to it.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  9. #39
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    Re: Obama - U.S. will not torture

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    God damned it, you beat me to it.
    Yeah well you know what they say. You snooze you loose.
    Affiant further sayeth not.

  10. #40
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    Re: Obama - U.S. will not torture

    Quote Originally Posted by Indy View Post
    Yeah well you know what they say. You snooze you loose.
    Some of us have to make abstracts for DAMOP.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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